Which frames and how many to use in a swarm trap?

[Jengles]

Hi all,

I started beekeeping last summer with two nucs which built up to full hives and have made it through winter (touch wood). Obviously two hives isn't enough, and the idea of free bees is appealing, so I'm going to try putting swarm traps out near the apiary.

I've got several spare nucs and hives but no drawn frames to put in them, and I read that swarms don't like boxes full of foundation. I've made foundationless frames, pictured, with wooden strips and fishing wire, and I'm hoping that they'll build comb neatly on these rather than all over the place. Should I fill the swarm traps with them or alternate with foundation?

 

[user 20297]

Hi all,

I started beekeeping last summer with two nucs which built up to full hives and have made it through winter (touch wood). Obviously two hives isn't enough, and the idea of free bees is appealing, so I'm going to try putting swarm traps out near the apiary.

I've got several spare nucs and hives but no drawn frames to put in them, and I read that swarms don't like boxes full of foundation. I've made foundationless frames, pictured, with wooden strips and fishing wire, and I'm hoping that they'll build comb neatly on these rather than all over the place. Should I fill the swarm traps with them or alternate with foundation?

View attachment 35407

I did as you describe and in one case I only had top-bars, having run out of frames. I caught two of my own swarms (thus very slightly mitigating my uselessness as beekeeper); and I caught one in a remote place where I had no bees, and it gave me great pleasure to have attracted them.

People have described that the lack of guidance that alternate frames of foundation give is likely to cause messy comb formation. I haven't found that. In any case, if you're observant and active, you can manipulate things correctly once they have settled.

 

[Murox]

Any bait hive/swarm trap I set up has just one or two old used frames, the rest is usually used frames if I have some but foundationless (or just with a strip at the top). I have also used new frames as well, then I put a few drips of lemongrass oil on the frames as an attractant.

 

[Jengles]

I did as you describe and in one case I only had top-bars, having run out of frames. I caught two of my own swarms (thus very slightly mitigating my uselessness as beekeeper); and I caught one in a remote place where I had no bees, and it gave me great pleasure to have attracted them.

People have described that the lack of guidance that alternate frames of foundation give is likely to cause messy comb formation. I haven't found that. In any case, if you're observant and active, you can manipulate things correctly once they have settled.

Thank you for the advice! With just top bars did you use spacers or was it so temporary they didn't have a chance to start building?

I'm hoping I'll be able to transfer any hypothetical swarm I catch into a more permanent home before they make a mess, but I only visit the apiary once or twice a week and I'm not sure how much building they can do in that time.

I've also got swarm lure and lemongrass, so I'm going to give it my best shot, not least because catching a swarm will prove to Mr Jengles that three spare hives and two nucs was a useful and sensible investment...

 

[user 20297]

No investment in bee equipment is sensible because it just leads to a need for even more bee equipment BUT I'm afraid Mr. Jengles will just have to get used to your better judgement.
I'm not saying that frameless frames are necessarily a good idea...needs must etc., but I ended up with some lovely comb that matched the rest of the frames. As it happens, I spaced them by eye, but eventually put plastic spacers on them.

 

[Lincbee]

In my home made swarm trap boxes I normally have 5 frames in with 4 being new foundation and one being an old drawn comb frame. I wouldn’t worry too much though I suspect you’d still have some success with foundation and a swarm lure if you don’t have any old brood frames!

 

[blackcloud]

Its thought by some that foundation interferes with the scout bees assessment of the volume of the box,so foundationless is preferable.
I've chosen that route and have had good success

A box filled with foundationless with a dab of lemongrass oil on one frame. Nothing else other than frame scrapings scattered on the base.

I make the bait hives a vertical 40 litres -they then only need 6frames and give a shape closer to a hollow tree (or a chimney..)
.
I assess their progress then either put them into full hives or cull/combine before they go freestyle with the comb.

Free bees are fine but I find only one in 20 captures are worth keeping -and swarms begat swarms.....

 

[JamezF]

I caught four swarms in bait hives last year. All had a single skanky old comb at the back (opposite the entrance) and all the other frames were starter strips with fishing wire supports. They all got drawn out beautifully. Some of the nicest brood comb I've ever seen, in fact. I believe it's important to get the hive level though, so the frames are vertical -- you don't want the frames at an angle and the bees drawing out vertical comb.

Of course we might just have well-trained bees in this neck of the woods

James

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Hi all,

I started beekeeping last summer with two nucs which built up to full hives and have made it through winter (touch wood). Obviously two hives isn't enough, and the idea of free bees is appealing, so I'm going to try putting swarm traps out near the apiary.

I've got several spare nucs and hives but no drawn frames to put in them, and I read that swarms don't like boxes full of foundation. I've made foundationless frames, pictured, with wooden strips and fishing wire, and I'm hoping that they'll build comb neatly on these rather than all over the place. Should I fill the swarm traps with them or alternate with foundation?

View attachment 35407

I've had many swarms move in to boxes with a full complement of frames containing both drawn and undrawn foundation as well as empty frames. A preciously occupied box with "bee smell" and/or a couple of used frames is helpful in encouraging swarms to move in but from my experience isn't essential. If the scouts like what they see and there's not a better alternative you could be lucky.

 

[Swarm]

Thank you for the advice! With just top bars did you use spacers or was it so temporary they didn't have a chance to start building?

I'm hoping I'll be able to transfer any hypothetical swarm I catch into a more permanent home before they make a mess, but I only visit the apiary once or twice a week and I'm not sure how much building they can do in that time.

I've also got swarm lure and lemongrass, so I'm going to give it my best shot, not least because catching a swarm will prove to Mr Jengles that three spare hives and two nucs was a useful and sensible investment...

As an idea, my landowner caught a large, prime swarm and 'popped them into a hive'. I went to check on them a week later to find he had put a box of eleven frames on top of the box he caught them in. They had all eleven frames drawn out nicely and this little lot hanging into the cavity below.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Two wired starter strip frames with one old brood frame sandwiched in between. Brood box painted inside with propolis. Box on potting shed roof at convergence of energy lines. Never fails.

 

[Garry R]

Do energy lines come under the government energy cap scheme or do we have to pay full price? Seriously how do we find energy lines so we know where to site the bait hives?

 

[madasafish]

Do energy lines come under the government energy cap scheme or do we have to pay full price? Seriously how do we find energy lines so we know where to site the bait hives?

I don't bother.
Still catch swarms.
SO it's for the weak minded and those whose minds think they know ley lines whereas in reality it is a construct of their minds alone.

I mean the above most sincerely, folks.

 

[MillMeadow]

Do energy lines come under the government energy cap scheme or do we have to pay full price? Seriously how do we find energy lines so we know where to site the bait hives?

I'd like to know.
I went through one with a mini digger once, made a right damn mess.

 

[Erichalfbee]

just thought I’d throw them in
@pargyle made me some brill dowsing rods but wire coat hangers work just as well

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've got several spare nucs and hives but no drawn frames to put in them, and I read that swarms don't like boxes full of foundation. I've made foundationless frames, pictured, with wooden strips and fishing wire, and I'm hoping that they'll build comb neatly on these rather than all over the place. Should I fill the swarm traps with them or alternate with foundation?

If they have a good guide to start the comb (as you seem to have) or even hyst the channel that is cut there for the foundation before the wedge is removed there is a good chance they will use that and draw perfectly straight and vertical comb. When I was out in Lesotho, when I arrived, I found that they had put out all their gifted Langstroth hives ready for swarms with frames but absolutely no foundation, six hives had swarms in residence and all had drawn their comb following the grooves in the top bars, apart from one that had actually drawn comb on the grooves vbt six inches from the end they had veered to the North but still keeping perfect spacing. AND the frames had European spacing, not the slightly narrower spacing required for Adansonii

 

[pargyle]

just thought I’d throw them in
@pargyle made me some brill dowsing rods but wire coat hangers work just as well

And they work ....Endorsed by Roger Patterson ...

 

[Ian123]

And they work ....Endorsed by Roger Patterson ...

Oh dear God

 

[Erichalfbee]

Beginners…. Before we get too carried away

 

[JamezF]

I'm sure leeches worked for some people, too.

James