When to stop feeding?

[REDWOOD]

Surely this would break the propolis seal and let cold air into the hive - that's if you could even crack it apart. Surely better to put the hive tool (or your fingers if there's space) under the bottom edge of the floor and try to lift.

Makes now difference with an OMF


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[Millet]

As SWMBo would say - time for fiddling around in the box is well gone.

Heft or weigh.

 

[Millet]

Weigh the stand and all the hive parts separate and write down the weight, i do not see any point in cracking the floor from the stand to weigh, get the combined weight of a empty hive then do the maths when weighing a full hive plus stand.

 

[mbc]

As SWMBo would say - time for fiddling around in the box is well gone.

Heft or weigh.

 

[mbc]

With lower temperatures, decreasing numbers and longer nights any brood inspection can set them back disastrously.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

With lower temperatures, decreasing numbers and longer nights any brood inspection can set them back disastrously.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Me too.
Agree too
How was Neath show JBM?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Me too.
Agree too
How was Neath show JBM?

Unloaded all the honey then went to park the truck - was just punching the reg number into the ticket machine when the heavens opened so got a soaking before the fair opened!!
It picked up after a slow start because of the weather but it was disappointing to see a lot less stalls there than in previous years.
All in all not a bad day considering that first thing in the morning I thought we'd be taking nearly all the stock home - down about 20% from last year, but sold quite a bit of my cut comb and candles.
Good day chatting to interested people, recruited a few vict.... err beginners for next year's classes and bought some of the biggest custard slices in the world for tomorrow's tea
An enjoyable day out.

 

[Millet]

Unloaded all the honey then went to park the truck - was just punching the reg number into the ticket machine when the heavens opened so got a soaking before the fair opened!!
It picked up after a slow start because of the weather but it was disappointing to see a lot less stalls there than in previous years.
All in all not a bad day considering that first thing in the morning I thought we'd be taking nearly all the stock home - down about 20% from last year, but sold quite a bit of my cut comb and candles.
Good day chatting to interested people, recruited a few vict.... err beginners for next year's classes and bought some of the biggest custard slices in the world for tomorrow's tea
An enjoyable day out.

Good and i hope the Starlings flew over and plastered you with Purple Elderberry Cack.
Just messing obviously and it is just a shame i am unsociable .

 

[Erichalfbee]

Unloaded all the honey then went to park the truck - .........................
An enjoyable day out.

I saw the weather forecast and remembered you were there....it more or less poured down all day here. Stan and I were supposed to go to support his eldest girl play in the Rugby League Grand Final but decided against it for that reason............bad parents!!!! Thatto Heath are now champions having hammered Bradford Bulls and we missed it....oh dear.

Glad you had a good day

 

[taurus]

Ah - I found a really helpful post from Erichalfbee from last October - which I'll copy here so I can find it again

Stolen from BBKA

Weight of a brood box plus empty frames – 7kg

Weight of a super plus empty frames – 5kg

Weight of bees – 7700 bees weigh 1kg, and therefore 40,000 bees weigh 5kg

Weight of honey in a super – 12kg

Weight of wax in a brood box – 1.5kg

Weight of floor plus crown board – 1kg


To ensure that a colony is heavy enough for the Winter. Consider a colony in a single brood box. To survive the Winter the weight should consist of

Floor and crown board 1kg

Brood box and frames 7kg

Wax in brood frames 1.5kg

Bees (15000) 2kg

Honey 18kg

Total 29.5kg – i.e. between 14 and 15kg when hefting a single side.

2) to ensure that a colony has sufficient stores to survive a dearth in June. Consider a colony with a brood box and one super. Its minimum weight should be

Floor and crown board 1kg

Brood box and frames 7kg

Super and frames 5kg

Wax in brood frames 1.5kg

Wax in super 1kg

Bees (40000) 5kg

Brood (20000) 2kg

Honey (sufficient to ensure survival for a week) 5kg

Total 27.5kg – that is between 13 and 14kg when hefting a single side




So I need to take a bit of a guestimate about what the double brood should weigh (I'm sure it's not just double a single brood because that would be too simple). Oh - and buy some scales of course.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well spotted. I had this bookmarked on the BBKA website "Heavy Man" but it's gone

 

[taurus]

I weighed the newer hive which really only got going in mid August after they superceded the queen. They are a single brood box on 9 frames with lightweight insulated dummy boards either side. OMF floor.

The sides weighed 11.8kg & 13.4kg = 25.2

Going off the numbers above that suggests they're a bit marginal for going into winter. I will continue to feed them syrup though they seem to be taking less down now the weather has turned cooler.

So can I check my thinking here...

I'll leave a syrup feeder on for the next week as the forecast is reasonable and see if they take any more. The feeder is in an empty super on top of a polycarbonate crownboard.

When they stop taking syrup remove the feeder, cover the feeder hole in the crownboard, then put some 50mm Jablite insulation board cut to fit inside the super on top of the crownboard to prevent condensation forming on the polycarbonate.

Then keep weighing them weekly.

Suggestions how to ensure they don't run short on supplies? What methods/strategies do people recommend?

(I didn't weigh the double brood colony today as I had to remove the crownboard to take out the last of the Apilife treatment - and the ladies weren't particularly pleased about it so I'll weigh them tomorrow.)

I realise this is asking questions most experienced people have learnt the hard way but I guess I'm not the only newbie going into the first winter. I am amazed how much time I spend thinking about them out there as the nights get colder.

 

[Beefriendly]

With lower temperatures, decreasing numbers and longer nights any brood inspection can set them back disastrously.

Inspected a few hives today where the queens had stopped laying whilst on the heather. A wintry 15oC today.... Glad to report sealed brood now present in all. Guess I'll have set them back disastrously...not!
Whilst I tend to agree with the advice to not inspect at this time of the year, there are circumstances where it is wise to so. It's supposed to take less than an hour for the bees to return the hive to the temperature it was before inspection. I very much doubt today's inspection will have caused anything disastrous to happen to them. Certainly hasn't in the past when I've done similar and at colder temperatures.
I've always found blanket dogmatic advice to not do or to do something a bit out of tune with modern beekeeping, where I feel one needs to be quite flexible when ensuring a colony is at optimal condition for over wintering.
Guess I'll now get flamed for being an irresponsible cad!
Flame away!

 

[mbc]

Inspected a few hives today where the queens had stopped laying whilst on the heather. A wintry 15oC today.... Glad to report sealed brood now present in all. Guess I'll have set them back disastrously...not!
Whilst I tend to agree with the advice to not inspect at this time of the year, there are circumstances where it is wise to so. It's supposed to take less than an hour for the bees to return the hive to the temperature it was before inspection. I very much doubt today's inspection will have caused anything disastrous to happen to them. Certainly hasn't in the past when I've done similar and at colder temperatures.
I've always found blanket dogmatic advice to not do or to do something a bit out of tune with modern beekeeping, where I feel one needs to be quite flexible when ensuring a colony is at optimal condition for over wintering.
Guess I'll now get flamed for being an irresponsible cad!
Flame away!

It is possible to inspect all through the winter, sometimes without apparent harm, its the unseen damage which will bump up the winter losses or cause colonies to be smaller come spring I try to avoid. Each to their own.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I
Suggestions how to ensure they don't run short on supplies? What methods/strategies do people recommend?

Insulation. A warm colony uses fewer stores.
I've found that a colony(especially in 14x12s) winter weight around now doesn't need any attention till February or so when energy requirements may well soar as brooding gets under way. A lot of people pop a block of fondant over the feeder hole in the crown board Christmas time. I find that if the bees need energy in late winter then fondant straight on the top bars is a better way.

Inspected a few hives today where the queens had stopped laying whilst on the heather.
I've always found blanket dogmatic advice to not do or to do something a bit out of tune with modern beekeeping
Flame away!

But your first sentence has the reason for opening.
No need for joe bloggs to be looking in unless there might be a problem that can be rectified....surely nothing dogmatic about that

 

[Beefriendly]

But your first sentence has the reason for opening.
No need for joe bloggs to be looking in unless there might be a problem that can be rectified....surely nothing dogmatic about that

The original poster was asking how to assess his stores and appeared (at the time) to be struggling with hefting or weighing his home made brood boxes. I suggested a quick inspection to assess store levels and was immediately flamed for suggesting such (welcome to the forum beefriendly ).

As SWMBo would say - time for fiddling around in the box is well gone.
Heft or weigh.

Quite a humorous flaming really, assuming you like that sort of suggestive crudity!

 

[mbc]

(welcome to the forum beefriendly ).
[/QUOTE]

I hadn't spotted you were new to the forum, welcome to the forum beefriendly

 

[Beefriendly]

(welcome to the forum beefriendly ).

I hadn't spotted you were new to the forum, welcome to the forum beefriendly

Appreciated.

 

[Swarm]

Another troll