When to stop feeding?

[taurus]

The setting - new to this, started this year. Wooden nationals in our garden.

My two colonies are a double brood and single (taken as a split back in the summer) which I have not gone through since early Sept on the grounds of not wanting to interfere with them as they prepare for winter.

Last time I looked they both had good stores of honey and pollen. They've been bringing loads of pollen right through Sept.

Over Sept the double brood has been treated with Apilife, the single had a huge brood break due to the split and then a supercedure in early August. I'll vape them with oxalic around the end of the year.

Both have been fed from the beginning of Sept with syrup in rapid feeders, taking down about 1.5litres a week.

I want to install insulated covers on top of the hives and assume at some stage I need to remove the syrup feeders.

I'm after some advice when to stop feeding the syrup and then should I just leave them to their own stores or add some form of sugar/fondant just in case?

(I was watching a video of a guy who made an insulated top section with a space underneath the insulation where he put a sheet of newspaper and then heaped sugar onto it which the bees took if they needed it. http://www.gardenfork.tv/diy-insulated-inner-cover-beekeeping-101-gf-video/ I like simple ways of doing things - anyone tried it?)

 

[tonel]

Have you tried hefting the hives? Can be tricky to know how heavy they should be as a beginner (which is what I found!) but if they feel pretty heavy then I'd guess they should be okay. I used the 4 pint rapid feeders, once done covered the feed holes with a thin bit of ply and put on an eke with a 50mm thick bit of insulation board cut to fit inside and roof on top (left OMF open), bees seemed to overwinter fine. I did overwinter on single brood and had pretty dark non-prolific bees though so things might be different for you. And there's always the option of putting on some fondant in the new year if you're worried they're running low on stores (if the hives feel light when hefting).

Am only a novice so might not be the best advice but am sure more experienced people will be along with more suggestions. I remember worrying a lot in my first year about not feeding enough but they were fine

 

[Erichalfbee]

Have a guesstimate of stores
Work out how much the hive components weigh. If you have spare kit you can weigh it. Add 5 lb for bees and maybe the same per box for combs ( if I'm way off somebody will correct me......but hive weights have been posted before so a quick search may reveal something)
It's easy to weigh hives with luggage scales. Lift each side off just clear of the stand and add.
40 lb of stores is a good amount for a wooden hive, less for poly
Keep an eye on weights after Christmas when you can add fondant if short

 

[pargyle]

Everything above is good advice ... I'd just add a couple of things ... Invest in a clear crownboard (a piece of 6mm polycarbonate with a 6mm rim to give top bee space if you run top bee space) as you can then peer in to the hive without disturbing the bees. Very reassuring over winter for a new beekeeper to see that your bees are still there and you can see tops of the frames where there will be an arc of honey. If you see them uncapping the honey at the top of the frames then you know they are reaching the end of the stores they have - at which point - fondant is your best friend.

 

[taurus]

Thanks folks. I have clear crown boards on both of them for the reason above. Hefting the hives suggests they've got plenty in store. Just anxious for their welfare once the bad weather sets in.

I think I'll make an insulated top box with space over the clear boards so I can take peek on mild days.

 

[Swarm]

Everything above is good advice ... I'd just add a couple of things ... Invest in a clear crownboard (a piece of 6mm polycarbonate with a 6mm rim to give top bee space if you run BOTTOM bee space) as you can then peer in to the hive without disturbing the bees. Very reassuring over winter for a new beekeeper to see that your bees are still there and you can see tops of the frames where there will be an arc of honey. If you see them uncapping the honey at the top of the frames then you know they are reaching the end of the stores they have - at which point - fondant is your best friend.

TBS doesn't require the rim.

 

[user 6228]

you need to stop watching vids like those...
insulating and leaving top entrances open, insulation in slabs tied on that isnt bonded to together...
yet more crimes of heat transfer.

come to one of my talks...

 

[madasafish]

Take the guesswork out and use a digital luggage scale - approx £10 or less.
Weigh front and rear.

Easy and accurate..If I as an OAP can do it....

 

[Erichalfbee]

you need to stop watching vids like those...
insulating and leaving top entrances open, insulation in slabs tied on that isnt bonded to together...
yet more crimes of heat transfer.

come to one of my talks...

Derek, would you consider a gap between a framed polycarbonate crown and a sheet of insulation a no no? Should the insulation be cut to fit inside the frame eliminating the bee space air gap or does it matter little?

 

[taurus]

The snag with weighing is that one of the hives is a home made jobbie that weighs a lot more than the standard stuff, but foolishly I didn't weigh it before I filled it with bees and the bees then filled it with honey, wax, pollen, propolis and more bees.

I could always empty them out onto the lawn and then weigh the empty hive.

(That was a joke by the way.)

No intention of leaving a top hole - in sunny Chester we don't get snow that deep. No of sticking slabs on the side of the hive, I suspect it would encourage damp which would only make matters worse. The plan is to only insulate the top of the hive above the crownboard.

Regrettably I work silly hours - like the past 3 weeks without a day off and my next free evening is after Christmas - so getting to talks isn't easy for me.

A noddy guide how to best insulate a hive would be useful though. I know a lot of people simply use insulating material attached inside the lid or cut to fit inside a deep eke. Any reason that wouldn't be a good idea?

 

[REDWOOD]

Easy way to estimate is remove the roof, put your hive tool between the floor and BB and pry down, the weight you should feel is the same as two supers full...ish. It's not rocket science but it works.

The bit that is rocket science is insulation, moisture and matchsticks

 

[pargyle]

TBS doesn't require the rim.

Yes.you are correct ...in timber hives... as I run Paynes Polys they come with bottom bee space as standard so you have to put a rim on to get top bee space ...

 

[Obee1]

Easy way to estimate is remove the roof, put your hive tool between the floor and BB and pry down, the weight you should feel is the same as two supers full...ish. It's not rocket science but it works.

The bit that is rocket science is insulation, moisture and matchsticks

Surely this would break the propolis seal and let cold air into the hive - that's if you could even crack it apart. Surely better to put the hive tool (or your fingers if there's space) under the bottom edge of the floor and try to lift.

 

[Beefriendly]

Why not just do a quick inspection and see what stores they have laid in?

Count the number of frames full of stores, is any brood present. Are there empty frames with nothing in? If so you are pretty safe to give them more feed. Its a judgement call based on what you see in your hives.
Although be prepared to remove some of the full frames come spring (assuming they haven't all been emptied...more an issue with poly hives than wooden ones) and replace with drawn comb to give queen room to lay. If no drawn frames just remove them in spring, extract the "sugar honey" and stick the frames back.

 

[taurus]

I haven't opened them up for a while since the weather has not been good when I've been free. Monday afternoon has a weather forecast of 16C so if I can grab some time I might take a look through.

I've tried hefting them this afternoon but I've no idea if the weight is right or not. It was far too cold today to open them up.

 

[Beefriendly]

It was 12oC here today. Not ideal but checked a couple of my nuc's for the same purpose....they need more food. Worth remembering we are talking a quick inspection here, not the full monty. You don't need to pull frames all the way out to see if they are heavy/full of stores. There is too much emphasis put on opening hives only in high temperatures in my opinion. If you need to look after their well being then don't worry too much about the advice about only opening in short sleeve weather.
Your main disadvantage is there will be more bees around and if you keep bad tempered bees they will live up to their name...so don't keep bad tempered bees. Although sometimes this can't be helped.

 

[Swarm]

Surely this would break the propolis seal and let cold air into the hive - that's if you could even crack it apart. Surely better to put the hive tool (or your fingers if there's space) under the bottom edge of the floor and try to lift.

You may find the floor has become welded to the stand so be aware.

 

[madasafish]

The snag with weighing is that one of the hives is a home made jobbie that weighs a lot more than the standard stuff, but foolishly I didn't weigh it before I filled it with bees and the bees then filled it with honey, wax, pollen, propolis and more bees.
?

All but one of mine is home made.. I weigh a super with empty frames and prorata it for height for a brood box..

2-3kg error is neither here nor there in scheme of things..

 

[taurus]

All but one of mine is home made.. I weigh a super with empty frames and prorata it for height for a brood box..

2-3kg error is neither here nor there in scheme of things..

Never thought of doing it that way. I've got supers with frames of empty comb I could use.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why not just do a quick inspection and see what stores they have laid in?

As SWMBo would say - time for fiddling around in the box is well gone.

Heft or weigh.