When do you put your first super on?

[The Riviera Kid]

When do most beeks put their first super on?

Both my colonies have now got supers on them (I waited until the first blossom came out ) but I was wondering when is the best moment to put the first one on? Maybe at the first snowdrops and crocuses?

Is it best to wait til super #1 is (nearly) full before adding a second? Should the second empty super go above or below the fuller one?

Last year I just put the second super on top of the first, but bees filled the central area in both, leaving most of the outer frames half empty. In both supers, they didn’t even draw the foundation out properly in the outer frames even though there was plenty of forage.

 

[Poly Hive]

I super at 8+ frames of brood. Nothing to do with flowers of any sort.

If you give it some thought there can be acres of blossom and a colony with say three frames of brood hardly needs a super does it? You would actually be harming that colonies development.



PH

 

[MrB]

Should the second empty super go above or below the fuller one?

I will be putting the 2nd underneath the first so the bee's don't have to clamber all the way up to offload their nectar.

 

[oliver90owner]

Not read this thread?

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=9747

RAB

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Thanks for the advice. The colonies had got 6 frames with lots of brood on but none was really full.


I suppose I asked the question as the remaining frames in the brood box are full of capped honey left over from winter that didn't get eaten and I wasn't really sure where the queen could go next. Every time I went back to inspect the bees had made still more brace comb on top of the brood frames...

It sounds like I have perhaps put the supers on a tad too early. I hope that the bees will be fine.

 

[Poly Hive]

Where the queen can go next.

Use the flat of your hive tool to bruise the cappings and the bees will eat the contents and voila the queen will lay it up.

You have to guide the bees not just cross fingers and hope.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Remove most of the remaining winter stores and replace with foundation? KISS principle in operation.

RAB

 

[MrB]

Remove most of the remaining winter stores and replace with foundation? KISS principle in operation.

RAB

how many frames of stores would you leave in this scenario rab?

 

[susbees]

how many frames of stores would you leave in this scenario rab?

One at each end?

 

[oliver90owner]

MrB,

how many frames of stores would you leave in this scenario rab?

Two, at most, probably. Depends on hive, colony size, etc., but I would not be prescriptive in any particular instance - I would assess each colony on it's merits at the time.

Replace just a couple initially? Replacing 4 or 5 (at once) with a weak colony might be just plain silly.

Watch the weather/nectar flow - I can always replace a frame of stores if needed.

I'm afraid I don't quite go entirely with P H's theory that they would eat it (6 frames of stores over the next week or so?), but agree they can be 'directed' to those 'bruised' stores rather than others in the hive, and move some of it up to a super, as well as consuming it or moving it to the brood nest honey arch. But I do go with his comment re crossing fingers and hoping.

At the moment I have about a dozen 14 x 12s frames, all with some honey (only three or four are completely full of stores) all awaiting return to the bees. There may be more shortly. But, then again, not having fed any sugar in the autumn or any fondant through the winter I know that all those stores are proper honey (unless my colonies went on a robbing spree last autumn!) so at least there is no risk of 'sugar honey' in my case. I will be careful with it, though, as there may be some slight residual thymol present!

I would not want to count that in my production for this year but there is a fine example of how simple claimed production from any particular colony could be skewed.

Regards, RAB

 

[MrB]

RAB
Many thanks

 

[Poly Hive]

I possibly should have said two a week. Certainly not 6 at a time.

It is a tried and tested method used by not only myself but my mentors over many years. It works.

It can be taken further but I am not posting that as the newbies will get into problems with it.

PH

 

[the naked beekeeper]

As said above, there's no calendar time of when a colony should be supered.
It depends completely upon that colonies state.

With unused ivy stores I have in the past, dug some out with an uncapping fork and replaced it. The bees then seem to start to shift it. I think they need a helping hand in moving/chucking out granulated stores. That way, you make space for the queen to lay up.

When she starts laying up 7-8 frames pretty fully, then it's time to super as the outer frames are most likely pollen and stores, which they need near the brood.

 

[oliver90owner]

Sorry, but this may come over as a bit harsh, but here we go.

With 5 or 6 frames full of winter stores and more in the brooded frames, this colony seems to be not so much further advanced than a very strong nuc, but totally congested with stores.

A nuc with a full frame of stores and some arches over the brood should be OK for about a fortnight. Now, here we have a relatively small colony with ample nectar flow at present, no space to store anything in the broodbox, so the only thing they will do is move it up into the super - so if the winter stores was sugar syrup the crop will be that too!

My take is that what we have here is the typical 'hive in a mess'', which ideally needs drawn brood comb NOW. Foundation is a second-best alternative. It may well be severely checked by having a super above (small colony and BIG space to keep warm) if the weather changes (which it can do, for the very much worse, at this time of our fickle spring or summer). (Read post #2 again, on that score)

It will probably get enough luck to get out of the situation, given time and a probable unecessary swarm.

Reading of the supering (and undrawn frames) last year (post #1) leads me towards the conclusion that expectations from the colony have been grossly over-estimated. I would make a guess (without looking back at previous postings) that they were fed too much, too early, in the autumn and gorged on fondant throughout the winter.

RK, where are you in Leics?

RAB

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

I have been reading Ron Browns latest edition of Beekeeping, A Seasonal Guide.

In it he describes a method of supering which can be useful for people that might have to travel to an out apiary.

He suggests supering as much as three honey supers at once by placing the first super over the QX on top of the BB.
Then put a sheet of news paper on top of that, then the next super on top.
Then three more sheets of news paper and the third super on top of that.
He suggests that the bees will chew their way up through the news paper as and when they need more super space!!!

Has anyone tried this method, if so, did it work?

Sounds like a good idea to me and could be used if a situation arose, but I would be interested to know if the method works.

Brian.

 

[The Riviera Kid]

Sorry, but this may come over as a bit harsh, but here we go.

DOn't worry. I have only been keeping bees for 2 years and am still learning!! I am just grateful for the advice!

Now, here we have a relatively small colony with ample nectar flow at present, no space to store anything in the broodbox, so the only thing they will do is move it up into the super - so if the winter stores was sugar syrup the crop will be that too!

Point taken.

My take is that what we have here is the typical 'hive in a mess'', which ideally needs drawn brood comb NOW. Foundation is a second-best alternative. It may well be severely checked by having a super above (small colony and BIG space to keep warm) if the weather changes (which it can do, for the very much worse, at this time of our fickle spring or summer). (Read post #2 again, on that score)

Ok. I will check it out today. SO I guess that Plan A would be to bruise the brood box stores so they will eat the honey and remove the super for the time being.

Reading of the supering (and undrawn frames) last year (post #1) leads me towards the conclusion that expectations from the colony have been grossly over-estimated. I would make a guess (without looking back at previous postings) that they were fed too much, too early, in the autumn and gorged on fondant throughout the winter.

Some additional info... the queen was born last May and seemed to do very well. The brood box seemed to get quite full so I put a super on for them.

They were fed in Autumn last year until the hive weighed about right but I have *never* fed them in spring nor have I ever given them fondant.

RK, where are you in Leics?

Countesthorpe LE8

Thanks once again for the help and advice. There's still a lot for me to learn I think...

 

[MuswellMetro]

i scrap off the cappings with my hive tool from solid ivy honey rather than bruise it

 

[pargyle]

i scrap off the cappings with my hive tool from solid ivy honey rather than bruise it

Oh my .. Groundhog day !!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I logged out and back in three times to make sure I wasn't going doolally!

 

[Poly Hive]

Scraping cappngs off or bruising achieves the same target to expose the honey so they shift it/eat it and so make room for her to lay.

If you don't expose it they oddly will ignore it. Try for your selves.

PH