What to do with a small cast swarm

[idg]

I caught a small swarm yesterday and popped them in a nuc. They were about the size of a large grapefruit. What is the best thing to do with a small colony like this? Build up or just add to another?

 

[B+.]

I caught a small swarm yesterday and popped them in a nuc. They were about the size of a large grapefruit. What is the best thing to do with a small colony like this? Build up or just add to another?

They still have time to build up for winter so, if you have plenty of spare equipment, you could do that. If, however, you are short of equipment, it might be better to combine them. It depends on your own personal circumstances

 

[Cussword]

When is the best time to start a nuc for over- wintering?
I suppose I'm asking can you start too soon. Would it need moving to a brood box if it became over-populated?


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[jeff33]

They still have time to build up for winter so, if you have plenty of spare equipment, you could do that.

Do you think there would be enough bees to look after the brood?

 

[B+.]

Do you think there would be enough bees to look after the brood?

If they have comb to build, they will work hard on this so the queen has somewhere to lay and they have space to build the food store.
If the bees are young enough, they can support the queen for a while. Hopefully, this is long enough for the next generation to mature and take over. If they are too old, the little colony probably wouldn't get established

 

[B+.]

When is the best time to start a nuc for over- wintering?
I suppose I'm asking can you start too soon. Would it need moving to a brood box if it became over-populated?


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Personally, I would say before the end of July. Although some very experienced beekeepers on this site have explained how they do it later (by intensive feeding when necessary)

 

[Beeline]

Personally I would keep them. If she gets mated and starts to lay, give her a frame of emerging brood from your largest hive as the impact on that hive would be minimal but would give the nuc a good boost of young bees. She may be a great queen.

They need to be strong enough to fend off the wasps that are soon to arrive.

 

[Finman]

Do you think there would be enough bees to look after the brood?

When you have 6 hives, give to the cast 2 frames of emergin brood.

 

[Cussword]

Personally, I would say before the end of July. Although some very experienced beekeepers on this site have explained how they do it later (by intensive feeding when necessary)

Thanks.

 

[Finman]

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In my country in theory we could rear nucs in August. But there are big risks. Nature stops blooming, and bees do not get pollen. Feeding does not help.

Red clover is good pollen plant in August, but if farmer cuts the field, that it is it then. EU orders so.

Once I carry several hives onto big red clover field. It was raining every day couple of nucs starved. Sometimes it is too dry, sometimes glover field is like bumbble porriage, because those are only places which have flowers.

So, it is better to start early, that the colony grows in the best time of summer. It is during main bloom.

 

[birdsandbees]

I collected a similar sized swarm a few weeks ago, queen was a virgin but has since mated and surprisingly they have done well with two frames of capped brood which will soon start to emerge, I did and still continue to feed them Syrup to help them build buy they are doing okay.

 

[snelgrove]

Still plenty of time for a small cast to build up for winter. With the addition of emerging brood it can be built up more quickly. Only if the balance of bees to brood is maintained.

A swarm in may is worth a load of hay
A swarm in June is worth a silver spoon
As swarm in July isn't worth a fly. ( can still be worthwhile for next year)

 

[madasafish]

I collected a small cast last year. Went into winter on 7 frames. It's now got a super full of honey.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I'd make sure it's kept warm and generally give it some TLC, and then see what happens.

 

[Finman]

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I start every year about 20 mating nucs. First it has one frame of bees. When queen starts to lay, I add bees that nuc can rear 3 frames of brood.

I can overwinter such nuc in 4 frame nuc. Biggest problem appears next spring, when the colony is reduced, and it is too small to start real build up.

What I mean is that it is easier to rear a nuc in the middle of summer that dufficult weathers in spring.

Question is about the start size of colony. I try to get my all hives to overwinter in one box. To keep half box colonies is a mere nuisance.

I am able to overwinter even 1 or 2 frames of bees witht terrarium heaters, but they have no value in spring. Perhaps toy value... I can only take bees from bigger hives that the dwarf is able to start a usefull build up.
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[oliver90owner]

Somehow I doubt a (normal ) grapefruit sized cast would have enough bees to cover and service two frames of brood in the first cycle unless very small frames, perhaps drawn comb, very warm weather and plenty of very local forage. But some people say 2 frames when it is really only equivalent to one. Very doubtful there will be two frames of capped brood inside a month - that would mean about 4-5 frames of BIAS in three weeks of starting laying! Think about it

Queen will be a virgin, so unlikely to get laying immediately. As others, they can be reinforced with emerging brood. Only a part frame initially, if a small cast.

Bees can be limited to a nuc all year through if the beek continually weakens the colony by brood removal, giving foundation to draw and possibly bleeding off bees for other duties.

Most things are possible but it does need a thinking beek to accomplish most tasks while in control. Most new beeks don't think laterally or outside the very small box in front of them. Just read this thread again and ask yourself 'how and why' at every post.

 

[Finman]

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Oliver is right. Often beeks report that their colonies explode in a week, even if practical brood cycle is 4 weeks, before the colony starts to grow.
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[birdsandbees]

In my post I did say several weeks, having checked it was just over a month ago and they aren't full frames of capped brood so I'm not making it up.
The point I was trying to make was that they can and will build in plenty of time before the winter and so don't have to have what could be a great queen killed and the swarm united with another colony.

 

[oliver90owner]

two frames of capped brood which will soon start to emerge,-

Then, later

they aren't full frames of capped brood so I'm not making it up.

'Soon to emerge' means 'not emerging yet'? Initial two frames was an exaggeration. I rest my case.

 

[birdsandbees]

And in your desperation to be proved right you completely miss the point!

Well done you!