What should be done with a double brood chamber colony in the spring?

[Flatters]

I only have the one colony at the moment and it is on a National double BC which I set up in preparing for the winter. The colony so far has survived and so I am wondering what I should be doing in the spring with the double BC:-

Should I,

At an early spring inspection combine the brood and some remaining stores into one BC?

Or

Should I be looking to leave them on a double BC?

I am favouring the first option since I understand doing inspections on a double BC is very difficult. If I reduce down to one BC are there any pointers that will be useful to know?

There may well be a forum thread on this already but I could not find one, so if there is I would be appreciate being pointed in its direction.

Thanks

 

[drstitson]

how did you end up on double brood without any inspections in that format last year?

 

[Flatters]

This is how I ended last season and how I finished with two BC and no inspections:-
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7104

 

[drstitson]

great - my first question would have been were all the QEs removed before winter (which i think your last post on that thread answers).
second question - when you joined colonies you had a small queenright colony (box2) and a large ?queenless colony (box1). you merged these with newspaper on a QE with box 1 on top of box 2. how come at next inspection you had brood in box 1 but not 2?

 

[Rosti]

Flatters your profile does not say how many hives. assuming this is your second year and you just have the one then increasing to a minimum of two must be your priority. Does not matter how you came to be on double BB, that is where you are and it does not make it wrong in any case.

Option 1 wait and see if they throw up swarm cells; Option 2 drive the isssue in a controlled way. I would go option 2 and then mange any subsequent swarm risk in the remaining original colony as a further opportunity to re-queen via demaree and keep critical mass plus a honey crop. Either way my rec is to take nucs.

I would effcetively split one of the brood boxes into two 5 frame nucs. selecting suitable frames with fresh eggs from both BBs to achieve this. you'll end up with two nucs and the original hive. If one fails no problem. Take the strongest nuc back up to a full colony. Worst case is two hives and a nuc you can either sell or re-combine.

 

[Midland Beek]

Give me a double brood National hive any day. Single brood Nationals are just too small these days.

If you do not want to operate two brood boxes, perhaps consider moving to 14x12.

 

[Flatters]

Rosti, this is my second year and I do have only the one colony.

If method 2 is followed when is it best to do this? I am assuming near the end of April when a decent amount of brood has been laid?

Are you saying split the hive into two. The queen naturally goes with one half and the second nuc will be queenless. Will the second nuc bees then make an emergency queen cell and get their queen that way?

 

[Rosti]

Flatters, I would go end of April, early May - unless you have swarm cells being sealed before that in which case use this as part of your swarm prevention as well but knowing you have good capped cells going into the Nucs.

To answer your question directly:
You want to come back to a single brood box really to give easy manipulation and inspection, so you are going to split the second brood box into two 5 frame nucs, leaving the original colony on one BB. You were on double BB over winter for a reason, what was it? Also note MBs comments about going to a bigger brood box (14x12).

You may also choose to demaree the original colony onto 14x12 - which will also act as swarm control for that original hive whilst maintaining critical bee mass and minimising the broodless change over period.

At the end of part 1 you will have 2 x 5 frame nucs and 1 single brood box original colony.

 

[drstitson]

rosti - see the link to the thread in his previous post.

if it were me i'd concentrate on building them up strongly then set them up as a cell builder/raiser using a cloake board. That way you can control the queen rearing process to some extent, end up with a couple of mini-nucs to nurture whilst the main colony provides a harvest for you and will then be ready to split off and requeen some nucs as appropriately with time to build everything back up pre autumn.

or am i talking rubbish....

 

[Finman]

.
You need not to do anything. Let the queen lay where it likes.

I usually inspect the second brood box where the most brood are.
The lowest box is half full brood if is.

When the swarming time is coming, then inspection of second brood box enough.
If you see queen cells filled with milk, make a false swarm. You need not inspect further the hive. It is going to swarm and you stop it.

Don't start to pick queen cells away. No use.

When it is time to put the third box over the hive, then change the brood frames' places.

To prevent swarming give to the hive new room as fast as it grows.

.

 

[Finman]

To answer your question directly:
You want to come back to a single brood box really to give easy manipulation and inspection, so you are going to split the second brood box into two 5 frame nucs, leaving the original colony on one BB. You were on double BB over winter for a reason, what was it? Also note MBs comments about going to a bigger brood box (14x12).
.

That will ruin the honey yield.

If you want honey, dont split you hives in spring. Let it show its habits.

 

[Hivemaker.]

You were on double BB over winter for a reason, what was it?

Rosti
refer to post 3.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Flatters - plenty of well-respected apiarists and honey farmers do operate (or did) a double brood system.....Sims and Wadey are two examples.

It'll be a strong colony, so embrace it.

Towards the back end of March you should find most of the brood in the upper box.

Rotate the boxes and at the same time clean the floor.

Condensing in to a single National BB just defeats the object.

 

[Rosti]

Finman, we are trying to get a balance her are we not.

In priority order surely the task is ....

Objective 1: get two strong colonies by autumn.
Objective 2: the psycological lift of a honey yield come August
Objective 3: get back to single BB

an early split but still a full BB main colony must cover most of that of surely? Even the Scandanavian beewhisperer can't have it all ways can you!

 

[Haughton Honey]

Objective 3: get back to single BB

Not quite sure why this should be an ultimate priority Rosti?

 

[Rosti]

WPC, Flatters expressed a wish to go that way thats all. No strong personal views either way, one of mine is still on a 14x12 and BB combo as it happens, real engine room must be said and 1 of 4 remains a novelty not a pain.

Single brood advatages are I guess simply ease of inspection realy, I'm basically lazy and prefer a 14x12 to 2xStdBB. If I was trying to take splits I'd like the x2 BB option.

 

[Haughton Honey]

WPC, Flatters expressed a wish to go that way thats all. No strong personal views either way, one of mine is still on a 14x12 and BB combo as it happens, real engine room must be said and 1 of 4 remains a novelty not a pain.

Single brood advatages are I guess simply ease of inspection realy, I'm basically lazy and prefer a 14x12 to 2xStdBB. If I was trying to take splits I'd like the x2 BB option.

Apologies Rosti. Wasn't trying to be 'confrontational' as it's not my way. You have a valid point.

Personally, I'd keep his colony on double brood and bleed off a nuc so that he's up to two by the end of the season.

Perhaps (if kit allowed) he/she could take a few swarms and increase that way too.....

 

[Flatters]

Thank you for all the feedback.

I do not have a preference. I am new and thought that you run a single BC during the summer months and a double BC in the winter. I assumed this was the case since the local club have single BCs.

I am open to suggestions and opinions and will then decide. I do have enough hives since I took the decision in autumn to get two more Bees on a Budget hives and make them up and now have them ready should I need them. I therefore now have 4 BCs if I need them, which could well be two colonies in the coming winter.

Moving to 14x12 is too big a step at the moment and also money has become tighter due to a change in circumstances.

 

[jameskilty]

If the ;local beekeepers generally use 1 BC this could be for good reason. Not all strains need more than 1. I prefer to concentrate them in one until they get to 8 frames of bees then rearrange them 4+4 and force them to expand outwards on to foundation. It depends on the season and your local forage and how prolific the bees are. If I am short of time I check for queen cells by tipping the top box so I can see the bottoms of the combs - queen cells are most often there. Then splitting is easier if you want to make 2. Otherwise if they don't grow bigger you can still split if they make cells - to raise a queen if it does not make swarming preparations I would get a mentor to assist. There are ways to split if you haven't seen the queen and ways to find her if she is difficult. 2 boxes does make all this easier. However, they are a bit harder to manage as they expand (dummy boards needed and comb can cross the boxes) and to reduce to 1 for the winter (harvesting from brood frames).

Take it easy - you have learned a lot already. If you want 2 colonies I suggest you feed them till they burst and split so the artificial swarm stays in 1 box and the rest move to another - split a few days later when a lot more bees have hatched if you want to cover yourself or even expand to 3.