What happened ?

[jarfoster]

Early one September morning I noticed a cluster of approx 20 soggy,dead and dying bees on the front of my hive about 3 inches away from the hive entrance. I flicked the cluster and they fell on the slab beneath. Amongst the bees was an unmarked queen,dead.
I was already aware that the hive was superseding but later that day could nt find the marked queen that should have been resident.
It was obvious after subsequent checks that I was queen less.
Can anyone suggest what may have happened ?
In supersedure at what stage does the original queen go ? Is she killed ? Is she kicked out?
Why did nt the new queen get in the hive ?
I realise that I will never know for sure what happened but has anyone any good ideas ?

 

[Finman]

.
First think what comes into my mind is robbing. Robbers have killed the queen and dead bees are result of fighting-

 

[jarfoster]

They were all in a cluster on the front of the hive so I was guessing that the cold damp night killed them. It was nt until I flicked them to the floor that i noticed the new queen in amongst them.

 

[oliver90owner]

First, what makes you so certain there is no queen present?

Have you checked recently for a laying queen?

My 'simple'/initial thoughts are that there were two virgins and your old queen expired or left. You may now have a laying queen or a virgin in the hive. Former may be good or a drone layer and the latter would be, frankly, a no-hoper for the colony.

Let's have your thoughts or facts on this one. I like to keep the scenarios as simple as they likely as they might be.

RAB

 

[Sir Quej]

Could she have been hurt during her mating flight maybe and has then died after returning to the hive ? Were the bees clustered around her Drones ?

 

[jarfoster]

I watched the hive for a couple of weeks no sign of the original marked queen or other queens no eggs,lava eventually united it with a queen right colony. Have nt looked inside since. Plenty of activity on nice days since then. Just intrigued to know of any suggestions of what happened.

 

[jarfoster]

No they were worker bees with her.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Did you put in a test comb first.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Did you put in a test comb first.

agree with Hivemaker a test frame before combining would have been better otherwise a stale virgin could casue you problems in the combine

I have seen similar though when the returning newly mated queen had misjudged the entrance and ended up under the OMF... continued to be fed through the OMF with her small retinue...then died on first cold night

i saw them under the omf but did not have time to check..two days later when i did check..all dead

 

[jarfoster]

What is a test comb ?

 

[Sir Quej]

What is a test comb ?

If you put a frame that has eggs in the hive you think is queenless and the bees build queencells, then you know you are right and it is indeed queenless. If they dont build queencells then you probably have a queen in there still.

 

[jarfoster]

Oops !! No did nt do that. Guess I'll find out in the spring.
Although, I think my bees this summer thought that any square inch of comb was for building queen cells?
Thanks for everyone's suggestions.