What be this bee?

[Tom Bick]

A quick look on the internet and it’s coming up with the African bee is very similar to the European honey bee but if anything slightly smaller. The one thing that is common is they all say the African bee is more aggressive than the European bee, but then we know the books are not all that accurate sometimes and seasonal may influence this. JBM you have a bit of investigating to do and a contact with a local beekeeper would be good, perhaps your new friend the prince can pull a few strings. The one thing I know is the African bee is prone to absconding and the less handling the better also bait hives distributed around are a good thing.

 

[itma]

No -some Capensis have been moved north inadvertently by migratory beekeepers when capensis parisitise the migrant bees - because Capensis are very specialised foragers, when they are moved outside their natural area their bees don't forage effectively (maybe that's a better way of putting it), capensis population increases in the hive to the detriment of the host thus they usually dwindle and die. There's a few references on 'tinterweb

Yes, but no, but ... "out of area" they are kinda parasitic - and they are a long way out of area (see map in reference) so they would die out pretty quickly. And I don't think that is what you are seeing.
Parasitised colonies would have separated sections of brood due to worker policing.

And Capensis are skittish on the comb, and still not exactly pussycats.
I think these are Carnie-ish/Italian-ish and were quite probably sold as "Buckfast" ...

I'm afraid I'm thinking "Groundnut Scheme" ...

 

[itma]

... JBM you have a bit of investigating to do and a contact with a local beekeeper would be good, ...

Dunno if this lot might be any help http://www.saafederation.co.za
They seem to be the bee farmers association of RSA.
Might provide some pointers. And possibly help with info on the local seasonal flora.

There seem to be plenty of regional contacts (who would in turn have contacts) listed on that site. Craig Campbell (just outside PMburg, thus nearest I think) is running 4000 hives...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

JBM you have a bit of investigating to do and a contact with a local beekeeper would be good

All in hand for next week, the minister has one beekeeper lined up, my colleague has found one today and When i finally get to see the centre director she will tell her staff to get me to the local one (it seems they won't do anything without her say so!)

they are kinda parasitic - and they are a long way out of area (see map in reference) so they would die out pretty quickly. And I don't think that is what you are seeing.

I quite agree with you - thread drift as usual seemed to have gone from specifically discussing my hives (shouldIi put them on beebase as my third out apiary do you think?) to discussing Capensis in general!!

I think these are Carnie-ish/Italian-ish and were quite probably sold as "Buckfast" ...

I'm having the same feeling

 

[Hivemaker.]

Quote.

As illustrated by photos taken by an independent party in last week’s BEE-L, it is possible to produce docile African bees (scutellata). By that, I mean large colonies that can be worked without protection. Smoke is used only to move the bees away from areas where they may get crushed. In short, the bees are simply not aggressive. Scutellata are, of course, the rootstock of the Africanized honeybee (AHB) in parts of South, Central and North America.

 

[starflex]

Yes, very warm. we are at the end of the rainy season now


If only that was true back here.

 

[MartinL]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .- - I'm not proud I role play in strip searches!! . . . . . . . . . .-
As an active member of the labour party don't worry about the silly answers, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . on safari in darkest Africa.

Where do I sign up for the UKIP strip search?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Spoke to Mamella the centre's director today - these seemingly Italian/Buckfast/Carnie bees were not supplied to the project - every colony that the orphanage and surrounding farmers have are swarms that have settled in the hives!! So either by some strange quirk some missionary years ago brought them over and they've swamped the local gene pool. Or I've stumbled across a gentle strain of African bees!! I was just emailed last night by my colleague out here who's also a dragonfly collector and a photo of a dragon I saw near the apiary the other day indicates that it is a sub species never recorded in the region before!!!!! I'm on a roll!!

 

[MartinL]

Will you be bringing any queens back with you?
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ ??

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Will you be bringing any queens back with you?
££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ ??

Sneaking them through customs is the problem - anyone know of a slim tubular queen cage with definitely no sharp edges

 

[itma]

... these seemingly Italian/Buckfast/Carnie bees were not supplied to the project - every colony that the orphanage and surrounding farmers have are swarms that have settled in the hives!! ...

Wow, that is pretty unbelievable!

But I hadn't previously twigged that "surrounding farmers" kept bees.

Have you been round to see what they are up to? Colony comparison and all that ...
Also (thinking ahead) what extraction and other facilities do they have access to?

I'm not sure that I'd swallow the idea of people buying Langstroth boxes to put out in the fields and bush in the hope that there would be a swarm passing that was looking for a bait hive, and that they would prefer a wooden Lang to a tree ... (best not tell Derek).
I think you should share a few beers with some of these farmers and see if you can find out a bit more!

 

[MartinL]

Sneaking them through customs is the problem - anyone know of a slim tubular queen cage with definitely no sharp edges

It's a long flight, how would you ensure good ventilation?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wow, that is pretty unbelievable!

But I hadn't previously twigged that "surrounding farmers" kept bees.

Have you been round to see what they are up to? Colony comparison and all that ...
Also (thinking ahead) what extraction and other facilities do they have access to?

I'm not sure that I'd swallow the idea of people buying Langstroth boxes to put out in the fields and bush in the hope that there would be a swarm passing that was looking for a bait hive, and that they would prefer a wooden Lang to a tree ... (best not tell Derek).
I think you should share a few beers with some of these farmers and see if you can find out a bit more!

There's going to be a meeting with all the farmers shortly, then i will be taken on a tour of all their hives to see what the colonies are like (I've asked for this to be priority now). All the local hive owners have langstroths given as part of the original project two years ago, and all the colonies are swarms that have moved in ( I remember hearing some conversation now as to the bees were slow moving in to them but didn't quite sink in) I'm assuming they've being using the traditional method of extracting in this area which is basically crush and strain - all the comb is broken up into a white cloth and the honey squeezed out) It gets moe interesting by the day.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's a long flight, how would you ensure good ventilation?

Unlike some on here who talk through theirs - to SWMBO's delight I can breathe through my arse

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Also (thinking ahead) what extraction and other facilities do they have access to?

Just remembered as well - i think a commercial bee farmer further South has undertaken to take the supers away to be extracted

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The New Arrivals

Just a few photos of the new arrivals.

 

[itma]

Just remembered as well - i think a commercial bee farmer further South has undertaken to take the supers away to be extracted

That would have to be in place to make the Langs worthwhile, otherwise, remembering that they are after product yield, I think they might be just as well off with TBH's. The only reason (in yield terms) for fussing your locals with non-self-produced boxes (that need probably bought-in frames) would be that extracting supers, and thus reusing the comb, would give more honey yield than crush-and-strain.

I'd be asking about the cost of transport (both ways?), production accounting, and ultimately (hopefully) things like bottling and marketing. (And be thinking about "apiary hygiene" all the while.)
Maybe OK to take a few supers a few miles for extraction, but how many, how far and for how long?

So, I'm sure this bee farmer is already on the "must meet" list! And I think if he was involved earlier on, he just might know something about these bees ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That would have to be in place to make the Langs worthwhile, otherwise, remembering that they are after product yield, I think they might be just as well off with TBH's.
.

May be - if they hadn't got the langs already, as you must realise over here the not so ideal scheme might work better. Timber is at a premium here so there's not even the old 'scrap wood is cheap' argument. I'm of a mind to scale it down a bit and then build up again - maybe even a centrally held extractor in the area. I'm not making any assumptions until
a) I've gone around all the beekeepers tomorrow.
b) we have a big meeting/workshop day with them the week after.

So, I'm sure this bee farmer is already on the "must meet" list! And I think if he was involved earlier on, he just might know something about these bees ...

apart from the fact there's a rumour he's emigrated to Canada. I have others on the list though

 

[itma]

...apart from the fact there's a rumour he's emigrated to Canada.

Now that IS definitely too far to take supers for extraction!

Very well aware of the relative lack of 'scrap' resources.
However I was wondering it there was any sort of a 'wood skills' resource that you could involve?
I was thinking that TBH might be more 'sustainable' than buying-in boxes, frames and foundation. Particularly if extraction is crush and strain.

What is the market for beeswax locally?
And what about putting together a solar wax extractor from "locally-available" materials?

Also thinking of marketing - is there any prospect of anything like an 'organic' certification? If the local agriculture is basic, there might be a possibility of producing products that could sell at a premium price.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's an orphanage and school. Run by disabled people, cared for by disabled people all skills are rudimentary. Demanding that they make their own hives will kill the project almost immediately.I'm aware that TBH is flavour of the month for Africa but I'm in two minds with this one. Until I speak to villagers I won't make a decision. marketing is one thing I'm considering but that has dropped down my priority list - finding out why they're not getting much honey is what I need to do. At the moment organic certification is not on my list at all, it may be in future.
As beekeeping in lesotho overall is in its infancy the wax market again is something for the future.
Remember South Africa has a great influence over anything here and they use predominantly Langs.
any more questions?