What are my options for a laying worker colony

[Curly green finger's]

Hi, I've a failed queen which didn't mate.. Everything looked good polished frames etc.
I looked at them yesterday and no queen present that I could see but some cells with eggs some with two in, the eggs were not lying in the cell properly either.
I wanted to add this is week 6 from when I charged a nuc with a two day old capped qc.
What are my options.
I've got mated queen's in apidea or I could order another queen or shake them out or unite. what are your thought pls.

 

[thorn]

Shake them out some distance from your other hives.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Shake them out some distance from your other hives.

I agree, it's a shame though concidering they've made some lovely brood frame stores and filled 8 super frames in this time.

 

[GuyNir]

I’ve successfully combined with a stronger colony in the past and it worked, but if I’m in this situation today - I’d opt to shake them out.

 

[For want of a better word]

Bit of a faff!

Make up some brood frames to take the apidea frames ( We have used a couple of bits of 90 deg angle to slide fit small frames in place.)
Shake out colony from DLW hive... IN FRONT OF THE HIVE...
Place frames with all the bees and laying queen from the apidea into hive ( now with the original bees buzzing around outside.
Mist some lavender water over the comb inc the apidea bees and the bees returning from the heap of shaken bees as they return to the hive.
No 100% guarantee it will work as with most things to do with bees... worth a try!



Chons da

 

[Erichalfbee]

Shake them out ten yards or so in front of your other hives. But be aware that a lot if the bees will make for the colony nearest to where they were
Smoke them really well 25 minutes before.
You can unite to a really strong colony. That works.
Sequential addition of a frame if brood works but I think it’s a waste of time. I’d shake out.
Already done one this year.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi, I've a failed queen which didn't mate.. Everything looked good polished frames etc.
I looked at them yesterday and no queen present that I could see but some cells with eggs some with two in, the eggs were not lying in the cell properly either.
I wanted to add this is week 6 from when I charged a nuc with a two day old capped qc.
What are my options.
I've got mated queen's in apidea or I could order another queen or shake them out or unite. what are your thought pls.

Nothing positively tells me that it's a failed queen and laying workers - wait until some of the brood is capped before doing anything. The multiple eggs thing may just be the queen 'clearing her throat'

 

[ericbeaumont]

Nothing positively tells me that it's a failed queen and laying workers - wait until some of the brood is capped before doing anything. The multiple eggs thing may just be the queen 'clearing her throat'

Agree.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I've not done anything yet but I've checked the dates qc got introduced on the 4th of May I'll give them until the weekend.
If hm does get going it will be a record for me..
I could of gone through them more to see if she was present but the weather wasn't the best and they were getting pissed.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

It's a difficult decision to make, but in the past I've lost two queens trying to "save" colonies with laying workers. One only had the first sign of going that way, but the queen was still nobbled. Each time I had lost the original colony and a potential colony.
From now on I won't take that chance and will shake out the laying workers and use the queen, or nuc, or swarm to develop into a fully fledged colony.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Wait* and shake.

* Agree with the idea she might be there after all <= polished cells

 

[Repwoc]

I think this is an interesting article:

https://www.honeybeesuite.com/how-to-fix-a-laying-worker-hive/

and the references within.

E-β-Ocimene seems to be the brood pheremone that suppresses the laying workers. I've purchased a small amount of this chemical which has just arrived today. I have a laying worker colony (nuc) in the garden which is probably beyond saving but I'm going to try smearing a little ocimene somewhere inside to see if it suppresses the workers from laying - hopefully without killing them.

 

[Swarm]

That's interesting, Paul. Let us know what happens.

I'm with the wait a while longer side, could well be a new queen learning the ropes. If it's going to be shaken then another week won't hurt and I wouldn't be surprised to find sealed brood..

 

[Curly green finger's]

Thanks Paul, I've just read through the link.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think this is an interesting article:

https://www.honeybeesuite.com/how-to-fix-a-laying-worker-hive/

and the references within.

E-β-Ocimene seems to be the brood pheremone that suppresses the laying workers. I've purchased a small amount of this chemical which has just arrived today. I have a laying worker colony (nuc) in the garden which is probably beyond saving but I'm going to try smearing a little ocimene somewhere inside to see if it suppresses the workers from laying - hopefully without killing them.

And worth going on to read one of the other linked ones
https://www.honeybeesuite.com/save-laying-worker-colony/

 

[Repwoc]

And worth going on to read one of the other linked ones
https://www.honeybeesuite.com/save-laying-worker-colony/

Yes. I agree with him - if you are going to add three or four frames of brood to a LW colony and still have a 50/50 chance of failure, it is better to just make up a nuc instead and add a queen to it. That has a much greater chance of success.

But I'm still going to experiment with the ocimene.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes. I agree with him - if you are going to add three or four frames of brood to a LW colony and still have a 50/50 chance of failure, it is better to just make up a nuc instead and add a queen to it. That has a much greater chance of success.

But I'm still going to experiment with the ocimene.

I’d love to hear how you get on. Keep us in the loop.
BTW he is a she.... Rusty Burlew

 

[Repwoc]

BTW he is a she.... Rusty Burlew

I did wonder - I've never heard of 'Rusty' as a name before so not a clue for me.

 

[Swarm]

Don't you remember Rusty Lee?

 

[Repwoc]

Don't you remember Rusty Lee?

No but I googled that and it's spelt Rustie not Rusty.

If I type 'Rusty' into Google the top suggestion is Rusty Firmin, ex SAS soldier who stormed the Iranian embassy in 1980.