Weak hive not feeding and worried

[beebob]

Hi forum, I'm a new beekeeper in my 1st year of beekeeping and it's been a steep learning curve.

I have 2 hives currently one is going well with 4/5 frames of stores and 2/3 frames of brood.

The 2nd is weak and getting weaker it seems. It was hopelessly queenless for about 6 weeks before we got a virgin queen introduced end of July. It appeared to have mated when we discovered some eggs and larvae but since we haven't seen seen a population increase as expected and on inspection today seems like the queen has stopped laying altogether and bees appear to have stopped feeding the 2:1 sugar water or fondant.

- Queen laying very few eggs.
Bees not feeding as much sugar syrup 2:1 mix (compared to our 2nd hive).
- Bees seem to be using their own stores instead of feeding from the syrup and adding to their stores. Frames noticeably lighter in recent weeks and last weekend seemed to have gone through most of their stores, but still not feeding.
- Last weekend we added fondant to the crown board as alternative source of food hoping that if they didnt like the sugar syrup they might take that. We have kept the syrup feeder as well.
- We also sprayed the frames with 1:1 syrup and Hive Alive additive as advised on Hive Alive packaging for helping weak colonies.

Not sure what more to do to help them. The only thing I can think of is supplementing them with some nursing bees / brood frame. We have a 2nd hive which is doing well but isn’t filling the hive and worried taking a frame from them at this time in the season would be a bad idea.

Any advice for hopelessly clueless new beekeeper very welcome.

Thanks, Rob

 

[pargyle]

Oh dear .. that is one poorly looking hive. I think they are probably doomed. I would not waste donating from another hive and looking at the state of them I would not donate the bees to another colony. The kindest thing you can do it put them in a Nuc, make sure they are well insulated and leave a slab of fondant on top of the frames. I suspect they will dwindle and die out. Have you ever treated them for varroa ? If not then that might be part of the problem .. you could treat them now - give them a blast or four of OA by sublimation but they may be a lost cause.

 

[enrico]

I can't add anything to Pargyle but these things happen so don't lose heart. Make sure your other hive goes into winter as strong as possible with varroa treatment and plenty of food.
It sounds like you have a mentor, if not then get someone else to have a look.
E

 

[beebob]

Hey thanks for reply. We put 1 apivar strip in each hive mid August. The bees in that hive do look scrawny though compared to the other hive. But maybe just old and lack of nurse bees has affected the queen laying pattern maybe? Or maybe queen just didn't mate well? It was quite wet the period of week that followed her introduction as a virgin queen.

 

[pargyle]

Hey thanks for reply. We put 1 apivar strip in each hive mid August. The bees in that hive do look scrawny though compared to the other hive. But maybe just old and lack of nurse bees has affected the queen laying pattern maybe? Or maybe queen just didn't mate well? It was quite wet the period of week that followed her introduction as a virgin queen.

Like Eric says .. it happens, even when you've done your best some colonies seem destined to fail - anyone who tells you they have never lost a colony is fibbing or they have never kept bees. Don't beat yourself up.

Invest in a means to sublimate OA - it's by far the most effective treatment, cheap as chips, you can do it virtually at any time and without injuring the bees. There's a recent thread on here where you can pick up a good Pan evaporator for £25 plus some OA off ebay, an old 12 volt battery and you are set up for the future:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/fruugo-cheap-kit-for-the-frugal.56008/

 

[beebob]

Like Eric says .. it happens, even when you've done your best some colonies seem destined to fail - anyone who tells you they have never lost a colony is fibbing or they have never kept bees. Don't beat yourself up.

Invest in a means to sublimate OA - it's by far the most effective treatment, cheap as chips, you can do it virtually at any time and without injuring the bees. There's a recent thread on here where you can pick up a good Pan evaporator for £25 plus some OA off ebay, an old 12 volt battery and you are set up for the future:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/fruugo-cheap-kit-for-the-frugal.56008/

Thanks for the tips and encouragement Pargyle. I'll check out the OA which I must admit I'd never heard of so was quickly youtubing it there in between your replies.

 

[pargyle]

Thanks for the tips and encouragement Pargyle. I'll check out the OA which I must admit I'd never heard of so was quickly youtubing it there in between your replies.

 

[beebob]

Thanks Pargyle. I've just bought the budget vaporizer and some OA so will give it a go when they arrive and move them over to a small nuc and see how it goes.

 

[E&MBees]

It looks like there are some dried shrivelled larvae in some of the cells. The last photo in particular. Could someone with more experience have another look please?

 

[ericbeaumont]

inspection today seems like the queen has stopped laying

E&M is right: many cells with decapitated larvae & partially uncapped cells, both of which are signs of bees' attempts to remove larvae damaged by varroa. In some of the empty comb can be seen white particles, either varroa poo or remains of consumed crystallised stores.

Second problem is the poorly mated queen: notice the capped drone larvae & poor brood pattern.

The evidence of sunken sealed cappings, abandoned brood, dried larvae, high varroa load and poorly mated queen indicates a weak failing colony that is now sufficiently stressed to be susceptible to EFB.

I recommend that you contact you local Seasonal Bee Inspector asap for a proper assessment.

 

[ericbeaumont]

one is going well with 4/5 frames of stores and 2/3 frames of brood

Is this box rammed with bees? If not, I suggest you consider putting the brood + the best combs of pollen + stores into a 6-frame poly nuc.

 

[Curly green finger's]

It looks like there are some dried shrivelled larvae in some of the cells. The last photo in particular. Could someone with more experience have another look please?

I can see sunken cells and pin holed cells , either chalkbrood and high varroa , or possibly efb
I would contact a sbi as Eric suggested.

 

[beebob]

Oh dear . Thanks for feedback. Will get in touch with SBI.

 

[beebob]

No it's maybe 6-7 frames of bees coverage.

Is this box rammed with bees? If not, I suggest you consider putting the brood + the best combs of pollen + stores into a 6-frame poly nuc.

 

[E&MBees]

Try not to panic. I’m a relatively new bee keeper myself and had EFB in one of my colonies last year. It was destroyed following an SBI inspection. It was devastating, but I learned so much from the experience. Get the colony sorted now, build up the other one and start next year in a strong position. Good luck!
Emily

 

[beebob]

Thanks Emily. Bit frightening when EFB mentioned but it is what it is and may as well get sorted, learn from it and move on. Looks like that colony is a goner whatever it is.

 

[enrico]

Just a quickie. If you are using Oxalic Acid for the first time make sure you wear an appropriate mask. It is really nasty stuff for us to breath in!

 

[beebob]

Just a quickie. If you are using Oxalic Acid for the first time make sure you wear an appropriate mask. It is really nasty stuff for us to breath in!

Thanks for heads up Enrico. Any budget ones you would recommend?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Just a quickie. If you are using Oxalic Acid for the first time make sure you wear an appropriate mask. It is really nasty stuff for us to breath in!

Catch the merest whiff and you won't finish that intake of breath. Just don't fall over in your attempt to escape the affected space. A decent particle mask is highly recommended.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Any budget ones you would recommend?

Thread Masks/filters for oxalic

Catch the merest whiff and you won't finish that intake of breath.

For this reason, follow John's advice, read the thread and get a full-face mask to the right standard.

If you're not ready for that expense, stick with ordinary varroa treatments: Apiguard, ApiLifeVar, Apivar.

hopelessly clueless new beekeeper

We've all been hopelessly clueless (I still am some days) but I must ask: what training and reading have you done?