Virgin introduction…?

[bjosephd]

Afternoon all…

What do you mighty and varied beeks suggest is the best way of introducing a virgin queen into your apiary?

I imagine a version of Michael Palmer's push-in cage approach?

But a bit more complex than introducing a mated queen I'm guessing as she can't be caged up too long as she needs to get out and mate asap?

Just tempted to have a go at ordering in one of these LASI virgins for the interest of it and learn a new aspect of beekeeping.

Thanks all…

Hope you've all had a lovely sunny bee-filled day.

BJD

 

[B+.]

s the best way of introducing a virgin queen into your apiary?

This is what mating nucs are for. If you make one of predominantly nurse bees and no open brood, you stand the best chance of getting a mated queen (possibly dunk the queen in some tepid water to slow down her movements immediately before running her in.

Don't use a push-in cage as this is effectively a queen bank. They will bite the queens feet and she will be useless after that.

 

[Tomo]

I think the bees will treat a virgin like any other bee.
Just run her in through the vent/porter bee escape hole. Until she is mated she will be ignored.

 

[bjosephd]

Cool interesting stuff…

So you can make up a normal sized nuc with some stores and capped brood and a load of nurse bees then simply run her in.

Sounds too simple!

 

[chrisb]

mating nuc is half size nuc or smaller only 3 or so 1/2 frames
look up mating nucs

 

[bjosephd]

mating nuc is half size nuc or smaller only 3 or so 1/2 frames
look up mating nucs

Is it possible to do it with a dummied down standard nuc?

I've seen mating nucs but not found a definitive "this is how you use a mating nut" anywhere. Normally it just says "use one".

For example, how do you put in frames of capped brood when the frames don't fit in a normal hive etc etc.

 

[B+.]

I think the bees will treat a virgin like any other bee.
Just run her in through the vent/porter bee escape hole. Until she is mated she will be ignored.

Hold on a minute. Do that and there is a chance they will just kill her straight away. Older foragers will not accept a new queen so these have to be removed (or the nuc moved/faced a different direction). Also, if the bees have been used on other mating nucs, they may reject the virgin too.

 

[bjosephd]

Hold on a minute. Do that and there is a chance they will just kill her straight away. Older foragers will not accept a new queen so these have to be removed (or the nuc moved/faced a different direction). Also, if the bees have been used on other mating nucs, they may reject the virgin too.

Ha… thought it sounded far too simple.

I did wonder if pulling a nuc and then re-placing it for a day or so in order for flying foragers return to the original hive.

I'm guessing that any eggs that made it into the nuc need to be checked a week after the nuc was made up in order to check they aren't raising their own new queen?

Can't be easy pulling a frame that is 100% eggless - bit risky to assume there were none.

 

[B+.]

Can't be easy pulling a frame that is 100% eggless - bit risky to assume there were none.

This is why you put frames of brood above a queen excluder until all brood is sealed, then destroy any emergency queen cells.
Watch Michael Palmers presentation on Youtube (https://youtu.be/R7tinVIuBJ8). He explains all this in there

 

[B+.]

For example, how do you put in frames of capped brood when the frames don't fit in a normal hive etc etc.

If you mean half length frames, there is usually a special box that has a frame rest tacked on half way across. Other colonies can be used to draw out the foundation or fill it with brood.

A lot of this is explained in "Contemporary Queen Rearing" by HH Laidlaw

 

[Nige.Coll]

If it's a virgin queen just run her onto the frames. No need to mess around the bees ignore her.
If you have a nasty hive and cannot find the queen putting a virgin queen into the hive is an easy fix she kills the queen for you lol.

 

[chrisb]

Is it possible to do it with a dummied down standard nuc?

I've seen mating nucs but not found a definitive "this is how you use a mating nut" anywhere. Normally it just says "use one".

For example, how do you put in frames of capped brood when the frames don't fit in a normal hive etc etc.

yes correct a frame or two and dummy's the only advantage of a 1/2 frame size nuc is size in relation to dead space and warmth !

1/2 size frames no problem as they are 1/2 size. join two together either at top or joining clips and drop into full size box to be drawn, or you can make hanging brackets that go between two full frames then the 1/2's fit to this and the main box
or put two drawing boxes on colony for them to drawout the foundation
two lang drawing boxes gives 20 1/2 size frames
you can get mini mating nucs these are tiny a cup of workers fills one !

I have just made some 1/2 size, they take 3 frame and feeder or 4 frame

 

[chrisb]

If it's a virgin queen just run her onto the frames. No need to mess around the bees ignore her.
If you have a nasty hive and cannot find the queen putting a virgin queen into the hive is an easy fix she kills the queen for you lol.

 

[Nige.Coll]

 

[gregior]

I was always taught that 'pulled virgins' (straight out of the cell) could be run into a hive but ones that were already hatched had the scent of a different colony would not be accepted.

 

[bjosephd]

Thanks for all your thoughts peeps

It's all turning into rather a big project! A full queen rearing enterprise!

All I want to do is hive up potentially one or two bought in virgins.

But hopefully I can apply some of the above techniques in a smaller scale.

 

[mjt68]

Thanks for all your thoughts peeps

It's all turning into rather a big project! A full queen rearing enterprise!

All I want to do is hive up potentially one or two bought in virgins.

But hopefully I can apply some of the above techniques in a smaller scale.

I think the advice might be to get used to dealing with queens and virgins and mating nucs first, before thinking of buying any. If you have a bunch of homemade virgin queens then it is a bit less high stakes.

 

[bjosephd]

I think the advice might be to get used to dealing with queens and virgins and mating nucs first, before thinking of buying any. If you have a bunch of homemade virgin queens then it is a bit less high stakes.

Indeed... makes sense... these LASI queens intrigued me is all.

 

[chrisb]

they have me curious !
I might have missed it but anyone know there strain ? buckfast, corniolan, italian,
or are they russian or african so as not to let you near the hive to see if they are clean or not .lol