Views on LASI Queens at the end of the season

[Madge]

How long between tests?
... "We normally check each hive 3 or 4 times at intervals of 1-2 weeks."
...]

That's a good point you should ask him about. As I said before, might the first batches be over-wintered queens?

 

[Madge]

two of us heard the same, others in the room commented on the same over tea afterwards - checked my notes of the meeting earlier on - says the same.
Obviously you have shut your ears to the truth and have decided what you want to believe - make up what you want. I know what he said that day.

A roomful of people, and nobody challenged him on basic genetics?

It would be interesting if somebody on the SBA conference was similarly confused - but from what I heard there (or thought I heard), from what he said to me personally, and from what's written on their website, only the combination of genes in virgin queens mated in our own apiaries is mentioned.

 

[B+.]

That's a good point you should ask him about. As I said before, might the first batches be over-wintered queens?

I don't know.
I would have thought he'd want to keep overwintered queens because they have proven their ability to survive. This makes them a known quantity to breed from. Of course, this is precisely what makes them valuable to potential customers too.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A roomful of people, and nobody challenged him on basic genetics?
.

He just ignored any question he didn't want to answer - or just didn't look at the person putting his hand up if he thought he wouldn't like the question

It would be interesting if somebody on the SBA conference was similarly confused - but from what I heard there (or thought I heard), from what he said to me personally, and from what's written on their website, only the combination of genes in virgin queens mated in our own apiaries is mentioned.

Maybe you just heard what you wanted to hear

 

[Erichalfbee]

Erica, perhaps you heard what you wanted to hear. The progeny will have local drone genes as well as the queen's - so they may show hygienic behaviour.

Point 2 refers to open-mated queens at their apiary.

I've not seen any changes on the website, and I've thoroughly studied it for a long time before I bought my five virgin queens.
Kitta

Look, I don't mean to be rude but why on earth would I "want" to hear anything?
Looking at my notes the talk was on May 14th. I had already ordered a LASI queen out of curiosity for June and didn't need any "convincing"

 

[Erichalfbee]

A roomful of people, and nobody challenged him on basic genetics?

We weren't allowed to. He wouldn't answer many questions. A few about sublimating and a few about plants for bees. JBM tried to raise other scientists" work in the varroa field and he got looked through as if he wasn't there.
It was a strange lecture.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It was a strange lecture.

Strange man.
There were three or four SBI's there plus our RBI. Spoke to them a while after - they weren't impressed either.

 

[Madge]

He just ignored any question he didn't want to answer .... Maybe you just heard what you wanted to hear

Yes, he is quite formidable.

Like Erica, I didn't 'want to hear' anything particularly, but what I did hear corresponded to what he has said on the website.

Kitta

 

[Poly Hive]

How are they doing this testing?

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

- or just didn't look at the person putting his hand up if he thought he wouldn't like the question

Guy's an absolute genius if he can figure out what they are asking before they ask it.
Me thinks research funds for current project are short.

 

[Finman]

Project is now in its early beginning, because they start to produce inseminated queens next year 2017. IT has taken many years that they are in this stage.

The Project uses private funding and the budget seems to be limited.

Clearly professor promises now more than it is possible.

 

[Finman]

Project is now in its early beginning,.

That is my opinion.... Lasi says that they have done work 10 years.. mixture of numbers can be found, but let it be.

HOW TO READ INFORMATION, and the backround to understand

I do not know actually, but when I compare information to Australian project, it makes think about details and what is facts and what is positive thinking.


- Lasi says that high hygienic bees are on average 96%. But inside 2 days,

- Australian report year 2015 http://honeybee.org.au/wp-content/u...een-Bee-Breeding-Program-June-2015-Update.pdf

- In 2015 tests there were 14 bee lines. And when you look number of hives inside lines, the work is huge.

BUT hygienic behaviour was measured after 24 hours. The pertanges are very different from Lasi

- In Australian lines average hygienic numbers were out of 14 lines:

*** Over 90% average 3 cases
*** between 89-80%) 10 cases
**** under 79% 1 case.

The honey flow!!! 2015 hives were fed with sugar.

Read the conclusion

 

[Finman]

.
American hygienic bee information

It comes mostly from private queen sellers. Things are going well. No problems... No data tables.. They are selling queens. They do not make research.

Difficult to compare.

But Americans seems to be great pioneers on this area and they have done much work. And they have huge systems to ensure the genetic variation. Bee lines here and there. Hobby beekeepers try to make their own line without genetic variations
.

 

[B+.]

- Australian report year 2015

There is a big problem with all of these open mated studies in that, unless the mating sites are completely isolated, the results are prone to contamination from other drones.
How isolated are these sites?

 

[Madge]

...
- Lasi says that high hygienic bees are on average 96%. But inside 2 days,

Nothing about 2 days on the Lasi site that I can see.

All I can see is that the open-mated queens they sell are tested three times, with the first test performed two months after emergence.

I can't see anything about the percentage of hygienic bees in their apiary.

 

[B+.]

Nothing about 2 days on the Lasi site that I can see.

Perhaps a clue lies in the description of the LN2 assay (http://coloss.org/beebook/I/queen-rearing/3/3/4/2)

"Historically, colonies that removed freeze-killed brood within 48 hours were considered hygienic, and if they took more than a week, they were considered non-hygienic (Gilliam et al., 1983). There is, however, a better correlation between the removal of freeze-killed brood and disease resistance when only the removal of freeze-killed brood within 24 hours is considered (Spivak, unpublished data)."

 

[Finman]

Nothing about 2 days on the Lasi site that I can see.

.

Lasi have several home pages and these have different texts. .
.
How Hygienic are Open-Mated Queens?
Research at LASI has shown that open mated daughter queens of highly hygienic breeder colonies are highly hygienic.
The average level of freeze-killed brood removal was 95.5% over 2 days.

http://www.lasiqueenbees.com/
.

 

[B+.]

Research at LASI has shown that open mated daughter queens of highly hygienic breeder colonies are highly hygienic.
The average level of freeze-killed brood removal was 95.5% over 2 days.

That is precisely my point Finman, LASI seem to be using the older definition which is less demanding than the 24 hour test (see previous post)

 

[Finman]

"Historically, colonies that removed freeze-killed brood within 48 hours were considered hygienic,

It seems that Austalia uses more demanding criteriums in their selective breeding. Results are measured after 24 hours. And their can see better the differencies in breeding lines.


If all are highly good, how can you select?


That is only important detail, when we compare information.
.

Their selecting methods rise up the top lines, and they are not many.

In medium gang there is big statistican variation. It means source of possibilities.

Too strong selecting leads to insemination faults and narrow genepool variation..

Those different lines are maintained by private beekeeping farms.
.
.
Yeah! Interesting to learn read these reports! New to me what they can keep inside.
.

 

[B+.]

This is why coloss (http://coloss.org/) is such a good resource. The protocols are defined in a step-by-step way so that consistent results can be compared.
If the protocols are different, the results aren't really comparable.

Incidentally, from my own experience with the pin killed brood assay, I have noted that the colonies with pronounced hygienic behaviour set to work cleaning out the cells very quickly while less hygienic colonies take longer. What I mean to say is the longer you leave the test running, the higher the percentage of completely cleaned out cells there will be ( see http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3736 and http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3739)
That is, they seem to focus on the opening of the cell first. They partially remove the dead pupa quickly but can take quite a while to completely remove the pupa (they leave bits behind). The test calls for the complete emptying of the cell so these cells can not be counted as empty.