Varroa - rock and hard place

[Nige.Coll]

MAQS can be harsh on old diseased bees, tends to kill them unfortunately most of the bees will be old and diseased.

Shook swarm will lose all brood and old tired bees aren't great at drawing wax. It will remove most of the varroa but will set them back at least a month. All the winter bees are soon going to die. You would still need to treat with something to kill phoretic mites.
Shaking onto drawn comb wouldn't set them back as much but brood still lost.

OA vaporisation has to be done to a timescale it doesnt kill mites in cells. No other downside colony not set back other than any new bees with dwv etc that are already there.

Thymol based treatments need higher constant temperatures than we have atm.

Not sure about vet prescribed treatments never used them.

Whatever you decide if you need anything I'm half an hour or so up the road.

 

[boywonder]

So ... Following the advice in Spring, I chose to treat with MAQS and had another fantastic mite drop (>2000 mites). The Queen barely went off-lay, and I have had a good season. Bees built up well, and, following an AS which I chose not to reunite, I have taken 70lb of honey from the two hives, where the bees/brood have looked consistently healthy (no signs of DWV this year, no varroa seen on uncapped drone brood etc...)

... And this year (following my first full season, when I know I meddled too much), I have been very hands-off - to the extent I have not been monitoring varroa drop, due to the absence of negative indicators.

So, I have just completed my annual Apiguard treatment on both hives (expecting minimal drop). When I went to the hives to retrieve the board, both were very busy indeed, with lots of pollen also coming in.

However.... I am going to try and attach a photo, but I am not lying when I say that the drop (measured by taking counts in various random places on the board through a 2cmx2cm window - and extrapolating) was c.a. 3200 from one hive, and .......... 8000 from the other !!! OMG

I do not know whether to be pleased or concerned, but the drop was so amazingly high, I would like to know of there is any advice in the community as to whether I need to undertake any further intervention. Cheers.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Finman]

MAQS can be harsh on old diseased bees, tends to kill them unfortunately most of the bees will be old and diseased.

Shook swarm will lose all brood and old tired bees aren't great at drawing wax. It will remove most of the varroa but will set them back at least a month. All the winter bees are soon going to die. You would still need to treat with something to kill phoretic mites.
Shaking onto drawn comb wouldn't set them back as much but brood still lost.

OA vaporisation has to be done to a timescale it doesnt kill mites in cells. No other downside colony not set back other than any new bees with dwv etc that are already there.

Thymol based treatments need higher constant temperatures than we have atm.

Not sure about vet prescribed treatments never used them.

Whatever you decide if you need anything I'm half an hour or so up the road.

I do not know what to say about your writing. You surely use wrong that stuff.
.

 

[boywonder]

photo attached (hopefully - Tapatalk is not playing)

... did not use what correctly Finman ? The MAQS ?

Like I said, that flushed out a large varroa population, and the bees have been good this season.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am not lying when I say that the drop (measured by taking counts in various random places on the board through a 2cmx2cm window - and extrapolating) was c.a. 3200 from one hive, and .......... 8000 from the other !!! OMG

I do not know whether to be pleased or concerned, but the drop was so amazingly high,

You must remember that if you are depending on the beebase varroa ready reckoner it is designed to calculate live varroa loads on the bees by estimation from the natural mortality figures gleaned from the drop board - no use whatsoever when you are treating, as the mites found dead on the board are the ones the treatment has killed, not theo ones that have died from natural causes thus the more you find on the board means there's a lot less on the bees

 

[Finman]

... did not use what correctly Finman ? The MAQS ?

Like I said, that flushed out a large varroa population, and the bees have been good this season.

I meant Nigel's comments when he tells his opinions about MAQS. IT is formic acid and it is not harsh when correctly used. It has been used really muchn here and there.

8000 mites is really much. And in what condition is brood?
1000 mites is a critical value.
Load after Winter has bee too high. Oxalic trickling was needed to hit down the mite number but feelings,
Treatment does not work if accident has happened.

At least good lesson to "do nothing guys".


I have lost lots of hives for varroa. So it goes.
IT seems often that things are OK but then mite hits again.



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[Finman]

.., and the bees have been good this season.

i have had good hives and at the end of summer mites gave killed the hives. Several times.

3 years ago a hive brought 170 kg honey. It had 5 Langstroths and 3 mediums.
Then it tried to swarm and lost clipped queen. I had 3 weeks brood break.
When new queen started to lay, mites rushed into brood. The colony colapsed to the size of handfull.

I used formic acid but I did not check, did it work

..

La

 

[Nige.Coll]

I do not know what to say about your writing. You surely use wrong that stuff.
.

I dont use MAQS I don't like it.
Is what I said wrong about maqs killing old bees or even queens ?
I have seen a lot of posts and articles about maqs killing queens here and in other beekeeping media.
Just giving an opinion based on what I have seen.

 

[Finman]

I dont use MAQS I don't like it.
Is what I said wrong about maqs killing old bees or even queens ?
I have seen a lot of posts and articles about maqs killing queens here and in other beekeeping media.
Just giving an opinion based on what I have seen.

Your opinions are wrong, all.

Formic acid kills queens when out temps are over 25C. Canadians have researched this 15 y ago.

Seen or read?

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[Nige.Coll]

Both. Seen and read.
So are you saying when maqs is used there is no risk of the queen being lost and it doesn't kill any bees ?


Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

@boywonder; I dropped 8,000 mites off a colony with Apiguard a year ago. They'd built up for various reasons. The colony was fine and gave 90lbs of honey this year. The diseases are more important than the numbers.

 

[Itchy]

So, after a colony swarms, phoretic mites will swamp new brood from new queen, causing the colony to collapse?

 

[Finman]

So, after a colony swarms, phoretic mites will swamp new brood from new queen, causing the colony to collapse?

Not swarm. 80% are under brood cappings.

But the rest of mother hive after 2 swarms has biggest load of mites compared to bees.
Then virgin mates and starts to lay after 3 weeks. All mites are froetic and they rush into first brood which get cappings. The new Queen does not lay much and the colony will be badly injured because of ratio of mites/larvae.

Then robbers may come to clean the hive and they get the mite load from helpless injured hive. Total healthy hive can collapse in a month, just when brood ought to be Winter bees.
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I have had many these sudden dead outs, but normal system is that mite reduces half or some part of Winter cluster. Two last emerged brood frames are often wingless porriage.

Mite treatment needs most of all carefull timing that mite level does not rise too high.

As you see, I have not been carefull.

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[Itchy]

That's what I meant Finman. This would explain why I had a couple of hives, very busy, swarmed then died.