Varroa Count High - Help!

[BBK]

So, After the Hive Clean Treatment I was getting a drop of around 40 a day which I watched for 5 days before I began to panic a bit.

Put the Api Guard on and after 24 hours had a drop of 49. The next 24 hours brought a drop of 90, peaked (so far) on Day 3 at 200 and now, day 7 down to 100. I'm hoping that I'll get a rapid drop to zero or close to zero in the next week. What it does show is that doing nothing would have been disastrous so thanks to all for the advice.

I've got the actual daily figures at home so I'll start posting them here if anyone is interested.

 

[MuswellMetro]

So, After the Hive Clean Treatment I was getting a drop of around 40 a day which I watched for 5 days before I began to panic a bit.

Put the Api Guard on and after 24 hours had a drop of 49. The next 24 hours brought a drop of 90, peaked (so far) on Day 3 at 200 and now, day 7 down to 100. I'm hoping that I'll get a rapid drop to zero or close to zero in the next week. What it does show is that doing nothing would have been disastrous so thanks to all for the advice.

I've got the actual daily figures at home so I'll start posting them here if anyone is interested.

post them so we can comment

like RAB ( oliver90 owner) i think apiguard will stop working soon as the temperature gets lower, your drop indcates quite a high varroa leval with apiguard at the recent low temperatures, but anything is better than nowt, it should get you through to oxalic treatment if the apiguard keeps working you have a three week brood cycle before it will drop signicantly

i would suggested at this time Bayvarol or Apistan as despite other commnets on the forum about resistance even if you have pyretheroid resistant varroa, i suspect a non temeperature kill rate @ about 80 % would be higher than Apiguard at the recent temperatures, recent tests ( ok by Bayer so do we trust them) have shown in areas not use for over 5 years kill rate can be even higher

You could have used Apivar (Amitraz) from a vet as that still has a 99.5% kill rate but a early spring shook swarm is best with bayvarol or Apivar to get rid of residue in the wax

 

[Robby]

I would go for the Apistan as there is no need for an eke, and you do not need to add more of it half way though the treatment. The timing is good now, in 6 to 8 weeks you must remove the strips so if needed you could treat with Oxalic acid then. If the seconded treatment gives a height mite drop you will know not to use Apistan again.
If you do go for the Apigard you could still use Apistan at the same time, so if the might are resistant to the Apistan the Apigard will still help and if the whether gets cold and the mites are not resistant the Apistan will still work.

 

[BBK]

As promised here are the stats so far:

Hive Clean Treatment (between 6 frames) on 17.10.2010. All subsequent counts are taken in the evening 24 hours apart unless otherwise stated:
18.10 40
19.10 50
20.10 42
21.10 41
22.10 44

1 tray Apiguard applied

23.10 49
24.10 90
25.10 99
26.10 200
27.10 148
28.10 139
29.10 104
31.10 144 (36 hours from previous count)
01.11 175 (36 hours from previous count)

Looking at the weather forecast, although not achieving 15 degrees, it looks like we are in for a spell of mild weather so I'm going to continue monitoring the Apiguard effects daily. I have Apistan on standby unless people think it would be really advantageous to treat with both together?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

The Apiguard is obviously working! That's a lot of counting!


A reminder that the apiguard is in the hive so provided the hive temp keeps up then it will continue to work as described. As the cells are opened and young bees emerge, then more varroa will hit the dust (well - the varroa floor but that's not so poetic!). A second application is required after 2 weeks.

 

[oliver90owner]

Even if no further mite drop (which looks highly unlikely!) that would mean around 250 mites were in the colony about 2 months ago.

Maybe your hive clean is not so effective after all?

When we have the final count, it might be good to interpolate your results back to the date of the previous hive clean treatment, to see just how effective, or otherwise, it appears to be in your particular case.

'One swallow does not make a summer' is the saying, so your result on it's own may not be enough to draw a definite conclusion as the worth (value for money) of this liquid treatment, but it may be a wake-up call to other users - so they actually check their results and do not rely on the 'sales hype' and 'claims from satisfied customers' of the product manufacturer.

Your level of infestation would appear to have likely damaged a significant proportion of the wintering bees, if only by infection with pathogens while the mites were feeding on the pupating larvae. Not a good situation.

Regards, RAB

 

[BBK]

Yes, a sobering lesson. I shall continue to do the best I can by the bees and understand that, even if I manage to get the mite count down to zero, that I'm likely to have a weakened colony. That said I'm determined to redouble my efforts and give them every chance of pulling through. Winter candy feeding will be on my list. Insulation is going in shortly.

I shall update the stats every few days for those who are interested. Wish me luck?

 

[oliver90owner]

Yep, best of luck!

They should be OK over the winter, with your enthusiasm and determination, but may be a bit slow expanding in the spring.

Regards, RAB

 

[BBK]

Thanks RAB. Slow I can deal with - I certainly won't be blaming them.

 

[BBK]

So, as promised an update on the varroa count. This is how we left it....


Hive Clean Treatment (between 6 frames) on 17.10.2010. All subsequent counts are taken in the evening 24 hours apart unless otherwise stated:
18.10 40
19.10 50
20.10 42
21.10 41
22.10 44

1 tray Apiguard applied

23.10 49
24.10 90
25.10 99
26.10 200
27.10 148
28.10 139
29.10 104
31.10 144 (36 hours from previous count)
01.11 175 (36 hours from previous count)


... and the latest counts:

02.11 63
03.11 86
04.11 110
05.11 75

That completes the 2 weeks of the first apiguard tray. The forecast looks like the recent mild spell could be coming to an end so I may be looking at putting in some apistan along with the second tray of apiguard. I was hoping not too, I've applied the apiguard by inverting the tray on the feeding hole of the crown board and that seems to have been working OK with the benefit of not opening up the hive. With the apistan strips I'll have no option but to open up. Any hints on how to get in and out in double-quick time would be much appreciated.

 

[Skyhook]

Any hints on how to get in and out in double-quick time would be much appreciated.

2 towels folded in half.. Crownboard off, towels on, with the folds touching in the centre. Whichever seam you want to expose, fold that towel back more, roll the fold of the other one forward. other thsan the bit you're working on, frames only exposed for a couple of seconds.

"I hates those miteses to pieces"

 

[BBK]

Ah, genius. Thanks Skyhook. Apistan will be going in tomorrow then. Going to give making my own fondant a go too. Poor girls deserve a treat!

 

[Skyhook]

Having had lots of mites left after apiguard, mine are now half-way through apistan- and the drop seems to be coming down nicely.

Good luck with the fondant- mine ended up in the bin. There seems to be about a 10-second window between underdone and overdone.

 

[BBK]

Whoa - wait until you see the latest count!!! So, popped the second tray of Apiguard on - I know the temperatures now are not conducive to the use of this treatment but I may as well finish the job I started. With Skyhook's top tip I quickly whipped the crown board off, covered with 2 towels in order to get 2 strips of Apistan in as quickly as I could. Thinking that the girls would be fairly dormant I didn't bother with a smoker. They were a lot livelier than I had anticipated - not impressed with me opening them up I suspect. Anyway, despite them not leaving me much space between the frames what with all the stores they've packed away I got the strips in and made a hasty retreat.

So, the full count thus far:

Hive Clean Treatment (between 6 frames) on 17.10.2010. All subsequent counts are taken in the evening 24 hours apart unless otherwise stated:
18.10 40
19.10 50
20.10 42
21.10 41
22.10 44

1 tray Apiguard applied

23.10 49
24.10 90
25.10 99
26.10 200
27.10 148
28.10 139
29.10 104
31.10 144 (36 hours from previous count)
01.11 175 (36 hours from previous count)
02.11 63
03.11 86
04.11 110
05.11 75

2nd Tray Apiguard added 2 strips Apistan added

06.11 167
07.11 447

Surely to God the count should take a nosedive soon??

 

[Skyhook]

06.11 167
07.11 447

Surely to God the count should take a nosedive soon??

With a leap in numbers like that, it sounds like you're making an impact on the population at last.

My apistan's been on for 4 weeks now. Today's count 7.

Keep the faith.

 

[MuswellMetro]

With a leap in numbers like that, it sounds like you're making an impact on the population at last.

My apistan's been on for 4 weeks now. Today's count 7.

Keep the faith.

This is my count when i added Bayvarol (similar to apistan) to the thymol patties as it was on week 6 and not going down

Tue-28-Sep 45
Wed-29-Sep 36
Thu-30-Sep 40
Fri-01-Oct 38
Sat-02-Oct 36
bayvarolSun-03-Oct 41
Mon-04-Oct 275
Tue-05-Oct 189
Wed-06-Oct 110
Thu-07-Oct 59
Fri-08-Oct 25
Sat-09-Oct 4

and it hovered around 5-10 for two weeks then zero my Hospital case is something else when it comes to varroa but thats still being treated

 

[Skyhook]

The received wisdom is that pyrethroids have had their day. I think the lesson someof us are learning here is that they can still be very useful- and hopefully, if used as part of IPM and not relied on exclusively, can continue to be so.

 

[Hivemaker.]

The received wisdom is that pyrethroids have had their day. I think the lesson someof us are learning here is that they can still be very useful- and hopefully, if used as part of IPM and not relied on exclusively, can continue to be so.

And if you carry out a simple beltsville type resistance test, you can get an even better idea of how useful they may be,or not.

 

[BBK]

Beltsville test? Is that something I could do? What does it involve?

 

[oliver90owner]

Hivemaker said: if you carry out a simple beltsville type resistance test

You wrote: Is that something I could do?

Hivemaker did say 'simple' but I don't know how challenging carrying out the test may be for you. You may, or may not, be able to do the test.

Dave Cushman's site details the procedure under 'varroa mite resistance test', or something similar.

RAB