varroa build up in drone rearing colonies

[winmag270]

so, I've selected the colony(s) that I wish to use as drone rearers this year.....

(yes I know there are likely to be many other hives worth of drones within flying distance of my chosen queen mating site, but ignore that if you will....)

my intention is to build them up and add a frame / frames of drone base foundation and let the bees do the rest.

however my thoughts are what to do regards varroa build up in this / these colonies?

I'm guessing build up of varroa is likely to be more rapid in colony(s) being used to raise numbers of drones....?

along with the rest of the hives in the apiary they were treated last year using Hivemaker's "thymol in oil" receipe followed up by OA in early jan

thoughts / advice on what others would do / have done / experienced so far, with regards to this ....

thanks,

 

[mbc]

I'm hoping my drone mothers will be fine untill late summer after having their winter dose of ox. If not then I dont really want them as drone mothers.

 

[winmag270]

fair comment mbc

any other thoughts?

 

[RoofTops]

One way, but it may result in drones being produced too late, would be to give them a shook swarm in early spring and then treat them again with OA within a couple of days. This would knock the remaining varroa down heavily.

An alternative and less drastic approach would be simply to give them a spring treatment of thymol, before any supers are needed. Perhaps starting at the end of March and going though into late April. It will not be as effective as a treatment when the weather is warmer but it will certainly reduce the mite population.

My choice if I wanted early drones would be formic acid. 20ml of 60% acid on a pad resting onthe brood frames and repeated after about 5 days. Formic acid will kill mites in sealed cells.

But before doing any of the above check the mite drop first.

Our County beekeeping magazine has just come out and it has a report on mite falls after OA treatment in winter. A couple of colonies which were not treated in the autumn had mite falls in mid-Jan before treatment of 8 and 3 respectively over a two day period. Four days after treatment the total falls were 4,858 and 978 which just goes to show how many mites there can be in a hive. Hives which had been treated with thymol in Autumn had drops of zero (over a two day period) and had mite falls after treatment of just a few dozen.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Best way is to make sure any drone rearing colonys are well treated in autumn,they should then okay.
I would advise not to use formic or thymol treatments on any drone rearing colonys in spring...as it can make the drones dry and impotent....not much point in that is there.

 

[winmag270]

I would advise not to use formic or thymol treatments on any drone rearing colonys in spring...as it can make the drones dry and impotent....not much point in that is there.

now i didn't know that....... interesting!

thanks Hivemaker, glad i asked the question now.

 

[RoofTops]

A few years ago I had 4 drone rearing colonies. The year before they were treated with thymol in August and OA in winter. They produced lots of drones the following summer but all 4 colonies died the next winter. They had plently of stores and bees but they all turned their toes up. There were no obvious signs why but my guess would be a high varroa load was to blame.

So my advice is whatever you do keep an eye on the varroa mite fall as the number of mites can build up very quickly.

 

[Hivemaker.]

There were no obvious signs why but my guess would be a high varroa load was to blame.

Were you not monitoring them for varroa during the summer then John,if as you say no obvious signs.

 

[RoofTops]

No, my fault. I collected the bad beekeeping award that year. I was only the nominee. (again).

Hence my advice to monitor carefully. It was a painful lesson.

 

[Poly Hive]

I am puzzling over this one.

If I treat my drone producing colonies in Spring before they commence drone rearing how will this affect the yet unlaid eggs and larvae of the drones?

Say treat with formic to make sure they are clean or as clean as...?

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Thank you John,your not the only one i'm sure...had my fair share of painful lessons as well regards the bee's,when things have been my fault.

 

[mbc]

fair comment mbc

any other thoughts?

Why would a drone raising colony have more of a varroa problem than any other ?
If its because of the addition of a drone comb in the brood nest then dont add one. This may be counter intuitive but if you think about it the healthiest drones will come from well balanced colonies ie. not ones were they have been artificially encouraged to raise unnaturally large numbers of drones

 

[RoofTops]

MBC, the point about drone rearing is to flood the area with drones of a chosen line. The drones are as important as the queen's line so if you are trying to rear good queens you need to pay as much attention to the drones as the queen. But of course this carries the risk being discussed here. Varroa seem to prefer drone brood as the longer time in the cell creates more varroa. Alternatively, leaving things to nature is fine and is what most people do, so nothing wrong with it.

On a vaguely related note, take two populations (not varroa), one of which increases at 18% a year and the other at 19%. You wouldn't think there would be much difference but after less than 100 generations the 19% population are twice the size of the 18% one. So varroa which choose drone brood win by force of numbers every time. I have buried the bees which result.

 

[mbc]

Rooftops, thanks for the heads up but I think your pissing in the wind if you think you can flood an area with drones from a chosen line from 8 colonies.
My point was trying to think of successful drones as the elite athletes of the bee world, not artificially forced by the designs of man at all - maybe I'm wrong and putting a few frames of drone foundation into chosen colonies helps mating to design, but I very much doubt it ! I reckon the successful chaps will be the fittest by natural design

 

[Poly Hive]

If you are isolated then 8 is more than enough.

PH