Uniting Warnholz Mating Nuc To Queenless Hive

[Busybee]

I have a large hive which had one open charged cell at yesterdays (Saturdays) inspection and several queen cups polished with eggs in. I found the queen and made up a nuc with her. I have a Warnholz mating nuc at home with a 2020 queen in it which i rescued from a failed hive in spring (I think nosema). This i placed in a mating nuc with a mug of bees from a different hive. It has grown succesfully to include 2 extensions. I wish to use this queen. I am wanting advice on the following please. If i remove all queen cells from the queenless hive next sunday, leaving it hopelessly queenless, and then the same evening place the Warnholz hive on top of the brood frames of the broodless hive (I am not using queen excluders this year) seperated by a newspaper to unite, is this likely to cause fighting and aggression or would you think it should act as a normal unite.

 

[Markthebuilder]

I have a large hive which had one open charged cell at yesterdays (Saturdays) inspection and several queen cups polished with eggs in. I found the queen and made up a nuc with her. I have a Warnholz mating nuc at home with a 2020 queen in it which i rescued from a failed hive in spring (I think nosema). This i placed in a mating nuc with a mug of bees from a different hive. It has grown succesfully to include 2 extensions. I wish to use this queen. I am wanting advice on the following please. If i remove all queen cells from the queenless hive next sunday, leaving it hopelessly queenless, and then the same evening place the Warnholz hive on top of the brood frames of the broodless hive (I am not using queen excluders this year) seperated by a newspaper to unite, is this likely to cause fighting and aggression or would you think it should act as a normal unite.

 

[Markthebuilder]

Im no expert but I would take down all but one capped QS then swap the queen you wish to use for the capped queen cell ie put the queen cell into your mating nuc as a back up . Then introduce the queen in a cage to your main hive.
As ever happy to revive critique of the above idea

 

[Busybee]

Markthebuilder. Thanks for reply. My main objective is to utilise this queen but also to remove the mating nuc from my back garden. I like them, but the wife not too keen now there are few more bees flying . So the idea was to try to unite everything in one go. I would close up the mating nuc on wednesday evening and place in my garage until sunday night. I already have six hives (A couple are nucs but will be over wintered as full hives) and that is enough for time being. If my idea was to fail, i would still have a plenty big enough hive to practice grafting with, so all would not be lost. At least that is my idea.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My worry would be that you are putting in last years queen into a colony that’s made swarm preps. Are they likely to just carry on and swarm anyway?

 

[jeff33]

Few things to consider:
- you save the queen from a failing hive with perhaps nosema. I would personally not want to carry on with this line unless the hive failed through my own fault.
- I will always unite a mini mating nuc to a small nuc with young bees rather than a full hive that maybe more aggressive towards a new queen.
- if they want to swarm they may still do so with your new (old) queen. From others comments a 2021 queen would be more likely to suppress the swarming.
- are you likely to get a crop from that hive? If not, I would make up a 3 frames nuc with it and introduce your queen to that. Let the other hive make their own queen and re-unite keeping whichever queen you want or make increase.

 

[Busybee]

My worry would be that you are putting in last years queen into a colony that’s made swarm preps. Are they likely to just carry on and swarm anyway?

I would hope not, but that is just my feeling. The hive has plenty of room, even more so now that the brood box has been depleted of 3 frames, and also although the queen is a 2020 has not laid any more than a mating nuc + extensions ogf brood. No signs of nosema on frames and comb and all appears healthy.

 

[Busybee]

Few things to consider:
- you save the queen from a failing hive with perhaps nosema. I would personally not want to carry on with this line unless the hive failed through my own fault.
- I will always unite a mini mating nuc to a small nuc with young bees rather than a full hive that maybe more aggressive towards a new queen.
- if they want to swarm they may still do so with your new (old) queen. From others comments a 2021 queen would be more likely to suppress the swarming.
- are you likely to get a crop from that hive? If not, I would make up a 3 frames nuc with it and introduce your queen to that. Let the other hive make their own queen and re-unite keeping whichever queen you want or make increase.

Yes the hive likely has about 30lbs on board at the moment and therefore don't wish to split. If the queen succesfully unites with this hive, my idea was to supplement it with capped brood from my other hives to overcome bee depletion and ensure further nectar collection from bramble etc which is just coming into flower.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My worry would be that you are putting in last years queen into a colony that’s made swarm preps. Are they likely to just carry on and swarm anyway?

Exactly my thoughts, you have a hive that desperately wants to swarm, you haven't really taken any swarm avoidance action, just given them a different queen to swarm with

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would hope not, but that is just my feeling. The hive has plenty of room, even more so now that the brood box has been depleted of 3 frames, and also although the queen is a 2020 has not laid any more than a mating nuc + extensions ogf brood. No signs of nosema on frames and comb and all appears healthy.

It’s more than likely though.
If you made them hopelessly queenless and introduced a 2021 queen you would probably be ok.

 

[Busybee]

Exactly my thoughts, you have a hive that desperately wants to swarm, you haven't really taken any swarm avoidance action, just given them a different queen to swarm with

Thanks jenkinsbrynmair. I thought i would just have a look at warnholz between showers to see how the land lies. It is teaming with bees and with BIAS in all stages. There is also now an unmarked queen which i am assuming is supercedure 2021 ? as other queen very well marked. Checked through every frame and no second queen to be found. If next sunday i knock down any queen cells in queenless hive and introduce queen in a cage with cap on to prevent release, leave for 3 to 4 for days and check to make sure bees not aggressive her, then allow them to release her slowly (Candy). With no chance of new queen cells being formed, should that not have removed the imminent urge to swarm.

 

[Busybee]

It’s more than likely though.
If you made them hopelessly queenless and introduced a 2021 queen you would probably be ok.

Thanks Erichalfbee

 

[Busybee]

Few things to consider:
- you save the queen from a failing hive with perhaps nosema. I would personally not want to carry on with this line unless the hive failed through my own fault.
- I will always unite a mini mating nuc to a small nuc with young bees rather than a full hive that maybe more aggressive towards a new queen.
- if they want to swarm they may still do so with your new (old) queen. From others comments a 2021 queen would be more likely to suppress the swarming.
- are you likely to get a crop from that hive? If not, I would make up a 3 frames nuc with it and introduce your queen to that. Let the other hive make their own queen and re-unite keeping whichever queen you want or make increase.

Thanks jeff33