Under floor entrance plans

[Wingy]

Sounds like the under floor was helping them kill the wasps whilst the tunnel wasn't!
Only going by your description
E

I think that the point Millet is making is that the wasps were getting in the hives with under floor entrance being killed in the hive and deposited outside, whereas the tunnel entrance hive could be easier defended so the wasps didn’t get in in the first place.
I have just made up some floors with under floor entrance but can also take a block to reduce the entrance size and create a tunnel. Best of both
Wingy

 

[SDM]

Wasps wont often try a tunnel entrance which is an advantage i suppose, however theyre not keen on underfloor entrances either and if they do try it , theyre assured of entering the hive at a densely populated frame making it either a sharp exit or a death sentence for the wasp. A tunnel will prevent attempted entry but is far more restrictive in bee activity, so its 6 of one half a dozen of the other.
Whilst theyll both deter wasp issues, underfloor entrances have access benefits in not restricting traffic flow(and easy flight access for all those alnost made it home foragers), mouse defence and where in the hive the bee enters( close to the center of activity, so nearer to where forage is most needed).
Plus theyre pretty tough.

 

[Millet]

Sounds like the under floor was helping them kill the wasps whilst the tunnel wasn't!
Only going by your description
E

If the wasps can not enter the hive they do not get killed...i have sat and viewed the hive entrances many times and what i have seen with under floor entrances is wasps sneaking in on the outside edges of the entrance slot and the amount dead on the floor out side of three hives with those floors says to me that they are not effective... on the other three hives with tunnel entrances the wasps simply can not get in i have often seen them enter and instantly get chased back out...obviously some do manage to get in when the bees are not so active by the few dead ones on the ground but only a small amount..make your own mind up what you think but i know what i have been watching with my colonies.

 

[Millet]

I think that the point Millet is making is that the wasps were getting in the hives with under floor entrance being killed in the hive and deposited outside, whereas the tunnel entrance hive could be easier defended so the wasps didn’t get in in the first place.
Wingy

Spot on..

 

[Millet]

hi seen your plans but for some reason they are not down loading do you know what the problem is

If you want to make some does this work for you..

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=579314&postcount=13

 

[Millet]

Wasps wont often try a tunnel entrance which is an advantage i suppose, however theyre not keen on underfloor entrances either and if they do try it , theyre assured of entering the hive at a densely populated frame making it either a sharp exit or a death sentence for the wasp. A tunnel will prevent attempted entry but is far more restrictive in bee activity, so its 6 of one half a dozen of the other.
Whilst theyll both deter wasp issues, underfloor entrances have access benefits in not restricting traffic flow(and easy flight access for all those alnost made it home foragers), mouse defence and where in the hive the bee enters( close to the center of activity, so nearer to where forage is most needed).
Plus theyre pretty tough.

I had a colony this spring on double brood.. (Keld Brandstrup F1 Queen) absolutely bursting with bees.. i ended up with six supers from that colony.. they where also on 100mm tunnel entrances.. maybe i could have got more supers from them with a bigger entrance block but that was plenty for me in my area..

 

[citrus]

what if I use railway sleepers or a pallet as the base of the hive ?

So I have paynes poly hives but considering using the under floor entrance as a better solution to the current landing board

(tbh I havent had too many issues with wasps or mice ...yet ....)

however my hives currently sit on two large railway sleepers rather than a stand.

from your experience .. could I position the floor so its entrance pokes over the lip of the front railway sleeper

Here is my current set up ..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/N88WYC9LiVxtR4Uo7

thanks all

PS> the open mesh floor .. where do you buy those from ... is it from a builders merchant ?

 

[Anduril]

So I have paynes poly hives but considering using the under floor entrance as a better solution to the current landing board

(tbh I havent had too many issues with wasps or mice ...yet ....)

however my hives currently sit on two large railway sleepers rather than a stand.

from your experience .. could I position the floor so its entrance pokes over the lip of the front railway sleeper

Here is my current set up ..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/N88WYC9LiVxtR4Uo7

thanks all

PS> the open mesh floor .. where do you buy those from ... is it from a builders merchant ?

Other than beekeeping suppliers, there is this company who also sell on ebay https://www.themeshcompany.com/cgi-..._0&SS=Beekeeping+mesh&SS=Beekeeping+mesh&PN=2

 

[Beefriendly]

however theyre not keen on underfloor entrances eithet.

My neck of the woods normal reduced entrances prevent all but the most determined wasps....but then I have large colonies of bees...usually double national brood sized.

To me it's the strength of the colony that is a major determiner whether wasps will bother a hive or not. Underfloor entrances may have a slight edge , but I've seen plenty of wasp go through them when there was a small colony of bees inside.

 

[madasafish]

My neck of the woods normal reduced entrances prevent all but the most determined wasps....but then I have large colonies of bees...usually double national brood sized.

To me it's the strength of the colony that is a major determiner whether wasps will bother a hive or not. Underfloor entrances may have a slight edge , but I've seen plenty of wasp go through them when there was a small colony of bees inside.

I have (home made) 5 frame polynucs with underfloor entrances. Appear to be targetted far less by wasps than nucs with conventional entrances. Weak nucs in autumn don't last long here due to wasps.

 

[SDM]

A number of years ago I bought some very second hand Nationals and they came with what the retiring beek called "heather floors" (Northumberland)

Similar to your design JBM the differences are:-

a. There is a slope up to the internal entrance.
b. The entrance slot is 25m Wide and there are 25 x 15mm holes in both side. This allows a piece of wood 25 x 15 x 460mm to slide in and restrict/fully close he hive. The holes can be covered with slides when not in use.

The above mods mean the hive is not mouse proof but very easy to close up for moving. When I got them they were solid floors, I have since changed them to 75% OMF.

My neck of the woods normal reduced entrances prevent all but the most determined wasps....but then I have large colonies of bees...usually double national brood sized.

To me it's the strength of the colony that is a major determiner whether wasps will bother a hive or not. Underfloor entrances may have a slight edge , but I've seen plenty of wasp go through them when there was a small colony of bees inside.

Cant quite figure how you can have both colonies too strong to be bothered by wasps and yet have seen plenty of wasps entering underfloor entrances.
Of course its the colony condition that is the decider with wasp issues, but wasp defence is a v.small parr of why i use them. Ive not had a colony in trouble with wasps since my first year, even mini mating nucs seem to cope fine as long as theyre Q+

 

[citrus]

From your experience .. could I position the floor so its entrance pokes over the lip of the front railway sleeper

Here is my current set up ..

https://photos.app.goo.gl/N88WYC9LiVxtR4Uo7

just bumping this question to the top of the thread ...

underfloor entrance works ok on the lip or designed for stands ?

 

[Beefriendly]

Cant quite figure how you can have both colonies too strong to be bothered by wasps and yet have seen plenty of wasps entering underfloor entrances.

In the days when I kept local mongrels the colonies where never very big....wasps were an annual problem regardless of entrance type.
Now I keep bees strains that produce large strong colonies and don't seem to have problems with ordinary entrances.

 

[For want of a better word]

In the days when I kept local mongrels the colonies where never very big....wasps were an annual problem regardless of entrance type.
Now I keep bees strains that produce large strong colonies and don't seem to have problems with ordinary entrances.

Wonder how your pure exotic imports will cope with the Asian hornet...???

This coming season we are allowing the nettles and bracken to grow right up to our entrances.. although the colonies that have the underfloor entrance design ( mostly on the Cornish Native Black single brood box honey producing ones) there has not been a wasp problem.
I have it on good authority from one of the beekeepers who volunteered to help on Jersey last season with their inundation of these exotic hornets that if the hornets can not hawk the entrance the bees will not be pestered.

 

[Anduril]

This coming season we are allowing the nettles and bracken to grow right up to our entrances.. although the colonies that have the underfloor entrance design ( mostly on the Cornish Native Black single brood box honey producing ones) there has not been a wasp problem.
I have it on good authority from one of the beekeepers who volunteered to help on Jersey last season with their inundation of these exotic hornets that if the hornets can not hawk the entrance the bees will not be pestered.

Exactly what a bee inspector told me, as he could see that I had already started doing it.

 

[Beefriendly]

Wonder how your pure exotic imports will cope with the Asian hornet...???
:

Probably much better than your inbred county bees....safety in numbers.....

 

[For want of a better word]

Probably much better than your inbred county bees....safety in numbers.....

More probably not.... time will tell ( 10,000 years of adaptation to climatic conditions... opposed to a mere few in the case of you exotic mongrells!)

 

[Beefriendly]

More probably not.... time will tell ( 10,000 years of adaptation to climatic conditions... opposed to a mere few in the case of you exotic mongrells!)

Do you really believe any of the rubbish you write?

How is 10,000 years of adaption going to help any bee in a fight against a predator it's never come across before?....bit like varroa. 10,000 years evolution and most bee colonies today will die without treatment by man.
Now be honest...you've been testing the mead again....haven't you....

 

[For want of a better word]

Do you really believe any of the rubbish you write?

How is 10,000 years of adaption going to help any bee in a fight against a predator it's never come across before?....bit like varroa. 10,000 years evolution and most bee colonies today will die without treatment by man.
Now be honest...you've been testing the mead again....haven't you....

With the total carp you write.. even testing my quite horrible mead .... is somewhat more pleasurable!

 

[TooBee...]

Do you really believe any of the rubbish you write?

How is 10,000 years of adaption going to help any bee in a fight against a predator it's never come across before?....bit like varroa. 10,000 years evolution and most bee colonies today will die without treatment by man.
Now be honest...you've been testing the mead again....haven't you....

Cheers,
the smallest violin in the world, playing just for you
This Thread has (had) nothing to do with your "Cornish (based on unpublished research) Black Bees" until you brought it up.

As to your question of "Wonder how your pure exotic imports will cope with the Asian hornet...???" probably the same as most Apis Mellifera imported into these islands over the past ... err 10,000 years, however bringing us back ON TOPIC, an underfloor entrance (as has been discussed and shown here) may help, in as much as preventing the Asian Hornets not being able to get as near to the entrance OR at least making it easier for the Beek to add a concave wire mesh (large enough for the bees to fly through, but restrictive for the Asian Hornet).

But your suggestion (via a Jersey Beek) sounds like a good idea, thanks for tip.