transparent/"glass" CB

[itma]

... Is there any problem with ventilation when using a polycarbonate crown board that does not have a feeder hole. ...

Simple answer: No - as long as you are using a mesh floor.

My caveat: My opinion is that in 30C+ temperatures (so not today), some top (thus through) ventilation ought indeed to be helpful.
But since those days are in a tiny minority here in the UK, what you gain on every other day more than makes up for what you might lose during a heatwave. And if you are really bothered, by all means get out the matchsticks (ADDED for clarification of the comment - and raise the crownboard fractionally) during the heatwave!

/ But I like the feeder hole (rather than having some boards with holes and some without), as it can be easily closed over - but I would prefer a round feeder hole to a Porter escape oval.

 

[oliver90owner]

Is there any problem with ventilation when using a polycarbonate crown board that does not have a feeder hole.

No.

All new crownboards I make are simple 460 x 460mm squares of 9/10mm ply. Why would they want a hole in the ceiling of their home? Most trees don't provide that sort of situation.

All mine are on OMFs so there is more than adequate ventilation - and bees know how to circulate the hive air for cooling (or warming). They have little control of convection through the hive, so heat energy will be lost even when not required.

By all means, leave a hole in the ceiling, but cover it with a piece of OMF type material; take note of their actions at the next inspection, to see what the bees think of your idea! You would never then bother to leave gaping holes in the crownboard, like some insist on doing.

RAB

 

[itma]

...
All new crownboards I make are simple 460 x 460mm squares of 9/10mm ply. ...

If I remember correctly though, you are running top beespace.
A simple flat sheet wouldn't be ideal for a standard National or 14x12.

 

[drstitson]

presumably the TBS/BBS issue was taken as read.

the point was that all that is needed for the board itself (frame excluded) is a 460x460 solid sheet of your preferred material - ply, polycarbonate, etc.

 

[itma]

presumably the TBS/BBS issue was taken as read.
...

I must presume so, however since the thread has been dredged up by a poster with no hives and 26 posts on his profile, I think it would be expecting too much to assume that that poster, and all subsequent readers, would understand that while RAB's profile shows 14x12, his comment would not apply to standard 14x12's.

For a bottom beespace hive, like a standard 14x12 or National, you need that frame!

 

[drstitson]

all my solid ply CBs have a 9mm frame on one side only (5 min job) - so are useable on any format of national.

 

[oliver90owner]

I simply quoted fact. All my new crownboards are that simple. Yes, it does need readers to think about that small difference. They, too, could benefit from this simplicity, but only if they think about it ... and change to top bee space. The context of the reply was of whether to leave gaping holes open in the hive ceiling. I think I covered that point quite clearly.

There are a lot of top bee space hives out there - think Langstroth. Nothing complicated on a Langstroth hive.

What do you call 'standard'? We have at least one poster insisting that it is not a deep box. Th*orne supply top bee space Nationals in 'standard' size.

I have never heard a 14 x 12 being called 'standard' before. Langstroths don't seem to have this silly 'standard this' and 'standard that'.

They are simply variants, as far as I am concerned. National format in shallow, deep, or extra-deep. They can be top or bottom bee space. Just so happens that bbs is more popular (with Nationals) and someone has assumed it is the 'standard'.

Go back and you will find the British Standard for beehives; yes, it referred to the number of the particular British Standard, just like British Standard No.12 was for Portland cement (and probably pertinent to both 'ordinary' portland cement and also 'rapid hardening' portland cement). There have been thousands of British Standards over the years. So it was likely that originally some dummy misread or misundestood the actual meaning of BS National, and it has stuck. Think about it.

RAB

 

[MandF]

All new crownboards I make are simple 460 x 460mm squares of 9/10mm ply. Why would they want a hole in the ceiling of their home? Most trees don't provide that sort of situation.

Most trees don't provide an open mesh floor situation either.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Most trees don't provide an open mesh floor situation either.

No but there is no floor to speak of,surely; just open space.

 

[oliver90owner]

Most trees don't provide an open mesh floor situation either.

Quite right; and does that make a suitable sized cavity in a tree a less inviting place for bees to colonise? I think not. They really don't need top ventilation and certainly less than a full OMF for bottom ventilation (the entry hole is often adequate for them in the natural 'tree home').

Some bees will live in a more open situation (chimney stacks per eg) and some even survive in more open aspects (window brickwork as in this eg: http://www.flickr.com/photos/esneri/4442448315/in/photostream ), but they will not tolerate through draughts if it can be avoided (ie only if feisted upon them by some unthinking beek). Think about it.

RAB

 

[TBRNoTB]

I simply quoted fact. All my new crownboards are that simple. Yes, it does need readers to think about that small difference. They, too, could benefit from this simplicity, but only if they think about it ... and change to top bee space. The context of the reply was of whether to leave gaping holes open in the hive ceiling. I think I covered that point quite clearly.

There are a lot of top bee space hives out there - think Langstroth. Nothing complicated on a Langstroth hive.

What do you call 'standard'? We have at least one poster insisting that it is not a deep box. Th*orne supply top bee space Nationals in 'standard' size.

I have never heard a 14 x 12 being called 'standard' before. Langstroths don't seem to have this silly 'standard this' and 'standard that'.

They are simply variants, as far as I am concerned. National format in shallow, deep, or extra-deep. They can be top or bottom bee space. Just so happens that bbs is more popular (with Nationals) and someone has assumed it is the 'standard'.

Go back and you will find the British Standard for beehives; yes, it referred to the number of the particular British Standard, just like British Standard No.12 was for Portland cement (and probably pertinent to both 'ordinary' portland cement and also 'rapid hardening' portland cement). There have been thousands of British Standards over the years. So it was likely that originally some dummy misread or misundestood the actual meaning of BS National, and it has stuck. Think about it.

RAB

Have thought about it! what a load of pedantic twaddle.

 

[parkranger]

I must presume so, however since the thread has been dredged up by a poster with no hives and 26 posts on his profile, I think it would be expecting too much to assume that that poster, and all subsequent readers, would understand that while RAB's profile shows 14x12, his comment would not apply to standard 14x12's.

For a bottom beespace hive, like a standard 14x12 or National, you need that frame!

Itma, I note your comments, that is why I originally posted " have taken note of the important points such as thickness and the need of a frame for bbs nationals".
The post wasn't dredged up, I did a search to seek clarification of something. isn't that what the search facility is for?
Maybe I'm being over sensitive but your tone that "it would be too much to assume that the poster would understand" is a little condescending.
New beekeepers have to start somewhere and I can only apologise for only having 26 posts but that doesn't make me any less deserving of a polite response.
Generally, this forum is an invaluable resource for newbies and reading it for the past couple of years has certainly given me the confidence to join the ranks so thanks everyone for your generosity in answering my queries.

 

[MandF]

I know - and that was my point. Bees will survive perfectly well with a "crownboard" with feed holes (aka feeder board), and its not really a big deal, especially when you consider that all our hives have a roof on the top, so there is limited through draft anyway.

It is more of an issue if you have a fragile hive, and/or through winter, because there is more airspace to keep warm, but I guess the poster will learn more about hive warmth, insulation and ventilation when they think about winter prep.

Just like bees survived being kept in wall nooks, skeps, and the absolute heresy (apparently) of solid floors and cb's only propped open with matchsticks over winter!

 

[MandF]

Simple answer: No - as long as you are using a mesh floor.

My caveat: My opinion is that in 30C+ temperatures (so not today), some top (thus through) ventilation ought indeed to be helpful.
But since those days are in a tiny minority here in the UK, what you gain on every other day more than makes up for what you might lose during a heatwave. And if you are really bothered, by all means get out the matchsticks (ADDED for clarification of the comment - and raise the crownboard fractionally) during the heatwave!

/ But I like the feeder hole (rather than having some boards with holes and some without), as it can be easily closed over - but I would prefer a round feeder hole to a Porter escape oval.

ITMA that was an utterly too rational and logical post. You even mention "matchstick". So sit on the naughty step.

 

[oliver90owner]

Have thought about it! what a load of pedantic twaddle.

Just another who cannot think whether it was a British Standard or a Standard Hive.

Just too subtle for some, or is there another reason?

 

[user 6228]

Is there any problem with ventilation when using a polycarbonate crown board that does not have a feeder hole.

... They have little control of convection through the hive, so heat energy will be lost even when not required.
...
RAB

not only heat but water vapour is lost... just observe the amount of water fetching that is going on ... bees like it hot AND humid (75%Rh)

 

[TBRNoTB]

Have thought about it! what a load of pedantic twaddle.

Just another who cannot think whether it was a British Standard or a Standard Hive.

Just too subtle for some, or is there another reason?

it's the pedantic tone.........not the hives, maybe too subtle for some