Too late to add more bees to a nuc?

[Loolabelle1]

Our bees were making queen cells a few weeks ago. We saw eggs but couldn't find the queen. We decided to break down the queen cells and made a nuc. We hoped that by giving them foundation they would give up until we could find her and carry out an artificial swarm. We checked last week and found lots of sealed brood and a few eggs but no queen. Yesterday, sealed brood, sealed queen cells and no eggs and a couple of larvae. We broke down the queen cells, except for one which looked to be the best and our keeping our fingers crossed. We then checked the nuc to find a small patch of new sealed brood but no eggs, no queen and one large queen cell in the centre.
We are certain we only put one queen cell in the nuc and the queen was definitely not on the frame as we brushed the bees off. We also put what we thought was a lot of non flying bees in with her but yesterday hardly any bees were in there. Is there any way to add extra bees from the main hive. Could we spray them with sugar water and pop them in or is it too late to do anything to help the nuc. We cannot combine them with the main hive as we risk a swarm as as we are in an urban environment and would prefer to hold on to them so we have options to combine if the queen cell in the main hive doesn't work. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Many thanks

 

[oliver90owner]

Wow. What a muddle.

I might appear the main hive has swarmed (sealed queen cells is the main clue). Probably about a week ago (no open brood is the main clue).

Not leaving two sealed queen cells was a mistake. (what if it is a dud?). Much better to retain the colony as viable than keeping fngers crossed that you have not taken away their only chance of viability.

If that nuc has emerged, mated, started laying, made a queen cell, has sealed brood, etc it must have been some considerable time since queen cells were initiated originally. Why, I wonder, did you not attend to the swarming instinct in the main hive soon after that?

You have no chance whatsoever of a swarm from the main hive if you unite with the bees from the nuc (not the queen cell), but that way you risk having hopelessly queenless bees and nothing else.

I would suggest sugar dusting the bees in the nuc and also some frames of younger bees (rather than soaking them), from the other, and shaking them into the nuc. Then keep your fingers crossed that one or the other (or both, even) of the queen cells is viable.

RAB

 

[Loolabelle1]

Thanks, yes I appreciate it is a muddle. We did take advice but could not find the queen each time we checked. We tried taking some of the frames out and pairing them up and we had help but still didn't find her, although we did find eggs. We keep our bees in the garden, but are looking for an out apiary, so cannot leave two queen cells in case they swarm. It happened before and the neighbours were not happy, so are trying to do our best not to upset them again. We are almost certain they did not swarm as the neighbours are at home so would have let us know and also our queen is clipped so we would have expected to find some sign of her on the ground near the hive. We will try your sugar dusting method and keep our fingers crossed that one or both of the queens survive. If this does not work, are we too late to purchase a queen in a few weeks and try and introduce her to the hive? Your advice would be appreciated. All the books say set up a nuc but if we only have a queenless hive, is there any way round this. Our friend introduced a queen, not realising it is better to do a nuc and then combine and unfortunately they killed her queen. We are all new beeks who are members of our local association so we do receive advice but sometimes circumstances are against us.

 

[oliver90owner]

If you have a hopelessly queenless hive the risk is that of laying workers making queen introduction difficult.

When there is no brood to feed, the bees do not age as normal for the summer, but more like over-wintering bees; so the colony may remain quite strong for some time.

Given some brood being available, the laying worker problems can be minimised or eradicated.

Regards, RAB

 

[Loolabelle1]

Thanks RAB. We only have the one hive so I guess will have to hope that one or both of our queen cells survive. We attend the apiary meetings of our local group so might see if we can acquire a sealed queen cell if ours turn out to be duds. We have had them since last June last year and would hate to lose them because of our incompetence. Acquiring some brood will be difficult as everyone else is on 14 x 12 and we are standard national.

 

[BeeNice]

Hi, if everyone else is on 14x12 you can still get the brood/eggs, cut down the frames if possible or cut out the foundation and put it into your national frame with bands or something, anything really to keep your hive viable.Hope all goes well.
Steven

 

[Loolabelle1]

Thanks Steven, I will ask on Sunday

 

[oliver90owner]

BeeNice thinking laterally there.

No rush yet, mind. You have two queen cells which may emerge, and still one if 50% fails. I am sure you would settle for only half - or even only half lost! (depending on whether you are an optimist or pessimist!).

You will remember this little episode for a long time - and hopefully so will your other new beek friends.

Swap phone numbers (if you haven't already) so you don't need to wait until apiary day, but as I said no rush - they will be alright.

Regards, RAB

 

[Loolabelle1]

Thanks RAB. We would just be happy to end up with one hive. We would not want them to fail because of our lack of experience. Hopefully at least one will make it through