To insulate or not?

[BeeJayBee]

Do you need to insulate hives during the winter months?

No. Plenty of beekeepers don't, but then plenty do use insulation both above and around their hives.

You'll find that some the older members of a BKA will scoff at the idea. They may also leave the feeding hole in the crownboard open, and prop it up with matchsticks to increase ventilation even further. They may also be continuing to use solid floors. Some of them will say insulation is helping raise weak bees that will succumb to disease more quickly, and they'd prefer to keep their stocks tough.

Others, including some of the more inquisitive older members of the BKA, will try top insulation and might even have tried out a polystyrene hive or two.

I've got polystyrene hives, I don't plan to stop using them and I don't plan to leave an open feeder hole at the top. I like to think my bees have a better chance of overwintering successfully than in a hive that's less well insulated because it's less stressful and could even mean they use less food.

 

[Tabby15]

I am a beginner still -first winter- and am confused. Two wooden nationals. Both open mesh floors, both have clear crownboards with (currently) hole open where porter escape fits.
Intending to close holes in crownboards, insulate above and rely on omf for ventilation but saw that I should remove the varroa board? Is that correct?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am a beginner still -first winter- and am confused. Two wooden nationals. Both open mesh floors, both have clear crownboards with (currently) hole open where porter escape fits.
Intending to close holes in crownboards, insulate above and rely on omf for ventilation but saw that I should remove the varroa board? Is that correct?

yep - varroah (or inspection board) should only be in when treating with Apiguard (or similar) or for a few days in summer to get an idea of the mite drop.
No holes in crown board unless feeding/clearing the supers. And many now put a slab of insulation (celotex.Kingspan or similar or even some polystyrene) on top of the crown board for insulation
So it looks like you're doing alright so far - I would get the varroa board out,hole closed and insulation on ASAP though

 

[Itchy]

Varroa board fitted that means ( I think)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Varroa board fitted that means ( I think)

No - open mesh floor should be open at all times (without varroa/inspection board fitted) unless you are in the process of applying Apiguard or oxalic acid or popped in for a few days to get an idea of the natural mite drop

 

[Arfermo]

A strong colony may be perfectly able to get through the winter without insulation but since the bees will consume stores to create heat to replace that which leaks out of the hive it follows that reducing the heat loss reduces the rate of food consumption. QUOTE]

I think you have it wrong way round - the more warmth they enjoy the more they can and will move around which means they consume more stores - not less. I have never bothered with insulation at all and have never lost a colony due to cold - starvation due to my own fault only. Frankly I can't be bothered with it.

 

[Itchy]

I'm putting mine in....at least those that aren't on solid wood stands anyway - just cannot see any benefit in having an open floor. I've never seen a wild colony with open floor, so why leave it open?

 

[BeeJayBee]

I'm putting mine in....at least those that aren't on solid wood stands anyway - just cannot see any benefit in having an open floor. I've never seen a wild colony with open floor, so why leave it open?

You only need to have the tray in place when you need to count a varroa drop.

If you leave the tray in there will be a place where wax moth can grow, without the risk of being eaten by the bees. They'll be cosy on the tray, will hatch and could easily crawl up into the hive or drill through the hive wall.

Check the information on beebase https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=207 and from vita http://www.vita-europe.com/diseases/wax-moth/

There are quite a few threads about wax moth and varroa 'floors' or 'trays'. Here's one http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12743 I think, once you've read it, you'll change your mind about leaving the tray in.

 

[Itchy]

Thanks BeeJoyful, it was more to do with keeping out draughts in small colonies....different matter in Summer, but windy, damp UK winter???

 

[Gilberdyke John]

A strong colony may be perfectly able to get through the winter without insulation but since the bees will consume stores to create heat to replace that which leaks out of the hive it follows that reducing the heat loss reduces the rate of food consumption. QUOTE]

I think you have it wrong way round - the more warmth they enjoy the more they can and will move around which means they consume more stores - not less. I have never bothered with insulation at all and have never lost a colony due to cold - starvation due to my own fault only. Frankly I can't be bothered with it.

Classic case of conflicting opinions. You have your belief, I have mine so we must agree to differ.

 

[Itchy]

Beekeeping really is a NUTS mixture of opinion, experience and belief.....never come across anything like it!

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Beekeeping really is a NUTS mixture of opinion, experience and belief.....never come across anything like it!

+1, and I think it becomes an end in itself; kept in bounds it's great fun. And throws up some really useful consensuses that we might never have thought of; various threads on double brood, for example.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Thanks BeeJoyful, it was more to do with keeping out draughts in small colonies....different matter in Summer, but windy, damp UK winter???

You'd probably be better putting a super beneath the brood box to reduce draughts, it'll cause fewer long term problems than having an area for wax moth to breed.

 

[bellsbees]

Bees do not enjoy watmth
They do not move around the hive

If bees are not doing brood, they stay calm in resting mode. That is their way to survive.

LIke in human houses: "I have never bothered with insulation my house because I have never lost any of my shildren due to cold -"

Finman you are brilliant. I only add insulation(cellotex) above crownboard when I want to help bees to maintain temperature for brood production, so I add cellotex in February. Depending on weather I often add pollen substitute.

 

[user 6228]

Finman you are brilliant. I only add insulation(cellotex) above crownboard when I want to help bees to maintain temperature for brood production, so I add cellotex in February. Depending on weather I often add pollen substitute.

dont insulate more than a tree nest but not less

 

[user 6228]

A strong colony may be perfectly able to get through the winter without insulation but since the bees will consume stores to create heat to replace that which leaks out of the hive it follows that reducing the heat loss reduces the rate of food consumption.

I think you have it wrong way round - the more warmth they enjoy the more they can and will move around which means they consume more stores - not less. I have never bothered with insulation at all and have never lost a colony due to cold - starvation due to my own fault only. Frankly I can't be bothered with it.

Wrong ... Research and experience shows they consume less , A LOT LESS.

 

[Finman]

Honey bee has a "warm season rest mode" too. Bees collect honey stores to get over dry or cold seasons. Like in Africa, bees have not "cold" seasons. Bees' biggest enemy is hot dry periods. It is around Mediterrian too.

In rest mode bees tend to save energy, and not to "enjoy" about warmth.

.

In North USA beekeepers use wrong type bee stock and non insulated hives. A hive can consume 50-60 kg food during winter and in Finland hive uses on average 20 kg.

In Finland one reseacher took 10 Anatolian queens. All hives starved during next 2 winters. They consumed food with speed 60 kg/winter. NZ beestock too is unable to live in Finland. And no Anatolian hive had brood during winter.

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[Michael Palmer]

In North USA beekeepers use wrong type bee stock and non insulated hives. A hive can consume 50-60 kg food during winter and in Finland hive uses on average 20 kg.

110-132 lb.?

Nah, that's not true. I keep bees along the Canada border where the winter is long and cold. Honey consumption is more like 25-35 kg.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

This is getting to be a long and rambling thread maybe we should precis an answer for the OP before he either falls asleep or his head explodes:

We are in Britain, Some beekeepers here say there is no need to insulate, some go to the other extreme and insulate the insulation!.
I think if you have a wooden hive then it is wise to put a sheet of 50mm Kingspan/celotex above the crown board.
Personally I have one sheet on throughout the year and double up in the winter.(you can cut a plastic takeaway carton size hole in the 'winter' one so you can fill a carton with fondant, open the feeder hole and feed the bees if they need it') But fondant feeding is another story.........

 

[Hivemaker.]

Try and remember this is a beginners section, so basic useful answers would be most helpful, rather than in depth and possibly confusing debate.