To control swarming or not

[Richard65]

I have been hearing a lot recently about how the bee numbers are down over the years. It made me think we do beekeepers put so much effort into stopping hives swarming.

Is swarm control part of the problem? I can see the argument in an urban area for control but what about rural areas?

 

[fatshark]

Why keep bees? Spend the money on hedgerows and wildflower meadows instead ... this will benefit all pollinators, not just honey bees.

If you don't control swarming you are simply adding to the problem ...

The swarmed hive product less honey
The swarm either gets established somewhere it shouldn't (the church tower, the soffits of the house with the anaphylactic child) or in a hollow tree. In either case it's long-term chances are extremely small. Without disease, swarms have a low survival rate. With disease (and the levels of Varroa and viruses will end up being high) they're chances are close to zero.

The weakened swarm is then robbed out by a nearby managed colony, transferring the mites and viruses back to damage them as well.

I can't see an argument for not doing swarm control wherever you live.

 

[thedozzer]

Hi Richard.
Firstly i think that its predominately other pollinators that are in decline, the likes of solitary bees and butterflies that have seen the biggest hit.
even as a beginner i can see the necessity of control even in rural environments, as the way modern farms & woodland are run there are very few natural places to swarms to make home in, they are large monocultures with very little hedgerows and rotten or suitable trees are not left to stand any more, on my friends farm a wild swarm has taken up residence in the chimney of the old brew house, they have been there 4 years and they are so high up they don't cause any problems, but one of the cottages down the road has had bees removed from various outbuildings over the years.
if you had the choice to live in a dry, relatively warm building or a rotten tree, what you you pick!!

 

[Poly Hive]

There are more beekeepers than there were ten years ago for instance and numbers are rising it seems year on year.

The "bees" that the media harp on about are not honey bees but bumbles and solitary bees. Further, if you ever have dealings with the media they print what you say6 and its like train tracks what you said is one line and what they say you said is the other and they never ever meetup.

Don't believe all you read.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have been hearing a lot recently about how the bee numbers are down over the years. It made me think we do beekeepers put so much effort into stopping hives swarming.

Is swarm control part of the problem? I can see the argument in an urban area for control but what about rural areas?

Honeybees numbers are not in decline, swarm avoidance/control should be practiced in all areas.
To allow bees to swarm willy nilly is irresponsible, anti social and generally is probably detrimental to the bees

 

[Teebeeaitch]

I agree, you don’t have to worry about the honey bee, the concern is more about other pollinators. Besides, even when diligently carrying out swarm prevention, it’s pretty clear that depending on the beek it’s probably only between 0% and 90% effective anyway. You only have to read on here how many of us are collecting our own and other people’s swarms so don’t worry about the honeybee just yet.

 

[madasafish]

I helped a lady who wanted to "save the bees" and decided with her three colonies not to practise any swarm control this year. I left her to that.

Fast forward to now, and she has changed her mind.. after at least 4 swarms left her three colonies in two weeks.

 

[philipm]

Yes there's keeping bees and Beekeeping I feel sorry for the poor B**ger who has to try and retrieve swarms from the most inaccessible places just because somebody thinks they are helping the environment.

 

[Richard65]

I am glad I asked lol

 

[bingevader]

but what about rural areas?

Most of you seem to have missed this bit before piling in!

And therefore from the comments and judging by the number of swarms around this year, most of us are clearly...

irresponsible, anti social and generally

..probably detrimental to our bees!

So the 'holier than though' comments don't wash I'm afraid.

There's no one here who could hand on heart say they've not lost a swarm.

And who isn't delighted to catch one?

So, it's just those irresponsible beekeepers who let their bees swarm into chimneys and roofs and not our bait hives, is it?

But before you all pile in again, yep, I practice swarm control methods.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Most of you seem to have missed this bit before piling in!

Not at all - it's bad beekeeping practice to let your bees swarm without trying to to control them whether in town or country. Mine are mostly out in the sticks, doesn't mean I don't bother with swarm control/avoidance.

So the 'holier than though' comments don't wash I'm afraid.

most beekeepers have lost swarms, as most have lost colonies, that doesn't mean they should just not bother trying to manage them, to allow swarming indiscriminately is a totally different kettle of fish to accidentally losing the odd one.
The only sanctimonious arse here is you I'm afraid.

 

[philipm]

Like I said in my earlier post keeper of bees or beekeeper ,yes we all sometimes lose a swarm but not intentionally.I think you will also find most responsible Beekeepers are concerned where any lost swarm will end up.

 

[madasafish]

Most of you seem to have missed this bit before piling in!

And therefore from the comments and judging by the number of swarms around this year, most of us are clearly...



..probably detrimental to our bees!

So the 'holier than though' comments don't wash I'm afraid.

There's no one here who could hand on heart say they've not lost a swarm.

And who isn't delighted to catch one?

So, it's just those irresponsible beekeepers who let their bees swarm into chimneys and roofs and not our bait hives, is it?

But before you all pile in again, yep, I practice swarm control methods.

The lady I referred to above lives in a two acre plot surrounded by woods and fields.. about 2 miles from the nearest village/town.. so definitely rural

 

[bingevader]

Not at all - it's bad beekeeping practice to let your bees swarm without trying to to control them whether in town or country. Mine are mostly out in the sticks, doesn't mean I don't bother with swarm control/avoidance.

But why is it bad practice if you are out in the sticks?
It's the bee's natural form of reproduction.
It might cause you to lose honey production, it doesn't damage them in any way.

most beekeepers have lost swarms, as most have lost colonies, that doesn't mean they should just not bother trying to manage them, to allow swarming indiscriminately is a totally different kettle of fish to accidentally losing the odd one.

No, sorry, a swarm is a swarm, if you've lost one, the repercussions are identical.

The only sanctimonious arse here is you I'm afraid.

Why, thank you kind sir, but it was 'holier than though, not sanctimonious arse.

 

[bingevader]

The lady I referred to above lives in a two acre plot surrounded by woods and fields.. about 2 miles from the nearest village/town.. so definitely rural

Then that is because she has a problem with it, not the bees!
In which case, she needs to practise some form of swarm control.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But why is it bad practice if you are out in the sticks?
It's the bee's natural form of reproduction.
It might cause you to lose honey production, it doesn't damage them in any way.


No, sorry, a swarm is a swarm, if you've lost one, the repercussions are identical.

Classic retort of a haver of bees rather than a beekeeper - make your mind up, which is it?
Or just stop trolling for a reaction

 

[Poly Hive]

There is another side to owning swarmy bees and that is the financial hit of having to buy or own all the kit to contain the increase.

My experience is that whilst people with swarmy bees seem reasonable at doing an AS they fail to grasp or master the art of uniting and are heard mumping about the ever increasing hive numbers.

PH

 

[eltalia]

I am glad I asked lol

[edit]
It made me think **why** do beekeepers put so much effort into
stopping hives swarming.

... when it went up (question) I did wonder, Dick.
For a vhurgen player to leap into _this_ topic as a prime "need to know
before I start " tis a tad unusual... in my limited b'kpn forum experience.

But, antennae retracted - I offer...
Understand (read up) the swarm urge to gather insight into the bigger
picture in an apiary and the "knockon effect" of;
*bees concentrating on filling cells without capping (backfilling)
*the queen being restricted in laying output and "put on a diet", one
wholly designed for flytime
*the enthusiastic drone production leading it
* the time spent by proponents in reviewing scouts reports, by
committee, and so not employed at their desk
*the effort spent by guards in keeping the Egg Police well away from the
cups location IF the urge gets to that stage.

... and these are just the regressive energies we know of, stuff that goes
on _before_ ol' mate b'kpr is any the wiser.
We all know or should know the windows for swarming within our local.
So to turn the urge off before it is even seen the safest method is to send
the bees a message in fitting a queen restrictor (QR) at the entrance(s).
(example of retail device attached)
It does happen where the b'keep is maybe a tad late in fixing a QR you
get to see the device actually working _and_ hear the queen protesting
she cannot comply with the day's standing orders.
Most interesting as an apiary experience.

Bill

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

someone been shaking the scrabble bag again I see

 

[Show me the honey]

Is there any statistics of how many swarms make it over winter? I’ve been interested in bees for 5 years, live in a rural area and have never seen a feral colony Seems to me they are safer in my box where they get treated and cared for