To Carry on feeding or not

[fast_muchly]

Hi
Please don't flame me or have ago as we are inexperienced we have a new set of bees that we got on 5 frames at start of summer.They have swarmed a few times nad I have asked what type they are before as there a lot darker than the norm buckfast queen.

With the weather having chucked it down for past 3 days and its turning colder do we carry on feeding as they seem to have only expanded to about 8 frames.I know this will not be enough to get them thru the winter so we have been feeding 2:1 sugar syrup.They are taking this from straight of the top of the frames with a rapid feeder sitting on top of the frames with an empty super giving the feeder some space.

Even though its chucking it down should I go up there open up take the feeder out now and pop on an eke and poss start feeding fondant on top of bars.The issue im coming from is warmth.

basically is it past time to feed syrup they were taking it before the rain came.

I haven't checked since.

 

[beenovice]

I still have syrup on at the moment. They are still taking it, although slowing down now. I have a crown board between my bees and the feeder. This way I think the hive stays a little warmer. I plan to remove the feeder, and super as a spacer, add a couple of layers of insulation, and then batten down for the winter.
I saw advice on here that they should be all fed by the middle of October. The bees have work to do on the Syrup such as removing water content and capping. Apparently if you leave it too late it may get too cold for them to cap, and hence will be spoiled over winter.

 

[oliver90owner]

do we carry on feeding

Supplying fondant is feeding?

They may need feeding all winter if there is insufficient stores.

Regarding warmth, they need a cosy bedroom for the winter with their food store close handy. I would suggest removing any empty frames and replacing with some sort of suitable insulation material.

Clearly not the time to do this just at the present time - still wet and cold here at the moment. This is a problem that should really have been addressed much earlier than now.

 

[enrico]

Yes keep feeding. Use a feeder board, ie a crown board with a hole in it. This keeps the hive warmer and stops them tring to build even small amounts of brace comb. The weather is still warm enough for them to evaporate the water off. When you finish feeding leave the feeder board in place but cover the hole. What you need to do is heft the hive every couple of weeks. Get used to the feel of how heavy it feels just lifting the back up. If it starts to feel light then place a plastic bag of fondant over the feeder hole with a cut in it where the hole is. This is really emergency back up and is not meant to be stored stores! It is like you are giving them ready made food not stuff they can store for later!
Syrup that is not evaporated properly is better than no food at all!
E

 

[pargyle]

do we carry on feeding

Supplying fondant is feeding?

They may need feeding all winter if there is insufficient stores.

Regarding warmth, they need a cosy bedroom for the winter with their food store close handy. I would suggest removing any empty frames and replacing with some sort of suitable insulation material.

Clearly not the time to do this just at the present time - still wet and cold here at the moment. This is a problem that should really have been addressed much earlier than now.

+1 and there are some questions you need to ask about why they have not developed to a larger colony by now ?

Have you had them in a full size box with empty space ? If so, they may have just had too much space to heat to make more comb and develop ?

Varroa ... Have you checked for infestation ? A colony weakened by a heavy varroa load or even disease will not develop well.

Have you been running without a crown board all season ? - Again, the insulation this provides, even in summer months is helpful to the colony.

What type of hive have you got and what have you done with them over the season ?

What is the extent of the stores in there at present, is your queen laying, is there still brood ?

There are so many variables that could have led to the present situation that you probably need to think as much about what has happened as you are about firefighting the present situation. As RAB says - feeding fondant in the New Year or even through the winter will solve feeding problems but there may be other issues you need to address.

Good luck. Come back and tell us more ... there may be more advice that can help.

 

[Arfermo]

Yes keep feeding. Use a feeder board, ie a crown board with a hole in it. This keeps the hive warmer. The weather is still warm enough for them to evaporate the water off. When you finish feeding leave the feeder board in place but cover the hole. What you need to do is heft the hive every couple of weeks. Get used to the feel of how heavy it feels just lifting the back up. If it starts to feel light then place a plastic bag of fondant over the feeder hole with a cut in it where the hole is. This is really emergency back up and is not meant to be stored stores! It is like you are giving them ready made food not stuff they can store for later!
Syrup that is not evaporated properly is better than no food at all!
E

This advice is all good stuff but another point worth a mention is that by having a CROWNBOARD above the frames with the feeder on top of that within, say, an empty super as an eke is that topping up the RAPID FEEDER can be done without disturbing the bees below the BC. That assumes that the RF includes the cone covering the central hole which is left in place while topping up and that you ensure that any secondary holes in the CB are covered too to stop bees swarming up to see what is going on and getting in your face. Small but useful points perhaps but not always appreciated by novices.

 

[enrico]

This advice is all good stuff but another point worth a mention is that by having a CROWNBOARD above the frames with the feeder on top of that within, say, an empty super as an eke is that topping up the RAPID FEEDER can be done without disturbing the bees below the BC. That assumes that the RF includes the cone covering the central hole which is left in place while topping up and that you ensure that any secondary holes in the CB are covered too to stop bees swarming up to see what is going on and getting in your face. Small but useful points perhaps but not always appreciated by novices.

Really useful stuff as always afermo, thanks
E

 

[fast_muchly]

+1 and there are some questions you need to ask about why they have not developed to a larger colony by now ?

Have you had them in a full size box with empty space ? If so, they may have just had too much space to heat to make more comb and develop ?

Varroa ... Have you checked for infestation ? A colony weakened by a heavy varroa load or even disease will not develop well.

Have you been running without a crown board all season ? - Again, the insulation this provides, even in summer months is helpful to the colony.

What type of hive have you got and what have you done with them over the season ?

What is the extent of the stores in there at present, is your queen laying, is there still brood ?

There are so many variables that could have led to the present situation that you probably need to think as much about what has happened as you are about firefighting the present situation. As RAB says - feeding fondant in the New Year or even through the winter will solve feeding problems but there may be other issues you need to address.

Good luck. Come back and tell us more ... there may be more advice that can help.

We have just come to the end of the apiguard treatment.And no we have had a crown board on all season infact its on now but above the super.While the weather was warm the bees seem to access the rapid feeder direct on the frames a lot better than they did thru the crown board hole.

Im wondering even in this terrible weather wether I should dash up there be as quick as poss and swap things around so the board is over the bb and feeder just over the hole or take the feeder off all together and put the crown board back on and cover the hole in the crown board to keep them warmer and feed fondant direct to frames.

 

[Davelin]

What I would do if I were you:
If you have any DIY skills I would buy a sheet of plywood and a length of stripwood and make another board to cover the top of the frames. Make a hole in the centre of this the same size as the central hole in the rapid feeder. This will reduce heat loss at the same time as making the feeder accessible.
Weather looks like warming up a bit later in the week so I would keep feeding .

 

[Pete D]

If you are really concerned then do something.
Personally I would remove the feeder from the top of the frames, smoke the bees down, put on the crown board, open the central feed hole and put the feeder over that. Put on the empty super as a spacer eke and fill it with a bit of temporary insulation, ie old towel/blanket, put on the roof, job done.
And yes I would do this even in this weather.
Check the feeder daily and keep topping it up (no need to disturb bees) untill they stop taking it. Then remove it, cover hole and replace insulation. Leave brood box and frames alone.
Put a slab of fondant over the bees, directly on top of the frames when you do your oxallic treatment.

Just my views and what I would do if they were mine.........although mine would be well fed, filling the box (or united), insulated and left alone by now.....except a couple that have supers on for Ivy honey crop.

Good luck

 

[pargyle]

If you are really concerned then do something.
Personally I would remove the feeder from the top of the frames, smoke the bees down, put on the crown board, open the central feed hole and put the feeder over that. Put on the empty super as a spacer eke and fill it with a bit of temporary insulation, ie old towel/blanket, put on the roof, job done.
And yes I would do this even in this weather.
Check the feeder daily and keep topping it up (no need to disturb bees) untill they stop taking it. Then remove it, cover hole and replace insulation. Leave brood box and frames alone.
Put a slab of fondant over the bees, directly on top of the frames when you do your oxallic treatment.

Just my views and what I would do if they were mine.........although mine would be well fed, filling the box (or united), insulated and left alone by now.....except a couple that have supers on for Ivy honey crop.

Good luck

Good advice from Pete ... I would also suggest that, if you have empty/undrawn frames I would take them out and dummy them down with some Kingspan in the empty space ... the less space they have to heat the better. You need to pick a slighly warmer day but this week looks like it's going to be 14 degrees in your area by Thursday and 13 degrees tomorrow ... so not ideal but not a disaster if you need to make some quick alterations.

 

[fast_muchly]

If you are really concerned then do something.
Personally I would remove the feeder from the top of the frames, smoke the bees down, put on the crown board, open the central feed hole and put the feeder over that. Put on the empty super as a spacer eke and fill it with a bit of temporary insulation, ie old towel/blanket, put on the roof, job done.
And yes I would do this even in this weather.
Check the feeder daily and keep topping it up (no need to disturb bees) untill they stop taking it. Then remove it, cover hole and replace insulation. Leave brood box and frames alone.
Put a slab of fondant over the bees, directly on top of the frames when you do your oxallic treatment.

Just my views and what I would do if they were mine.........although mine would be well fed, filling the box (or united), insulated and left alone by now.....except a couple that have supers on for Ivy honey crop.

Good luck

Just done this without reading the post but thanks..........I couldn't rest so just nipped up and done it.
The bees are all in a cluster over about two or 3 frames in center keeping warm look a bit weather hit. There were no bees taking from feeder or hardly any going out odd one or two.

As soon as I put crown board on directly over the bb and uncovered the hole and popped feeder back on over the crown board hole within 2 mins the bees came straight up and started to feed. Feel a lot calmer now and on a warmer day will add a bit of insulation round the feeder as well.