Thornes hive boxes & frame rails

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Location
Wiveliscombe
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Today I've been building a jig for making up brood boxes and supers, testing it against some brood boxes I bought in the sales last year and haven't get assembled, but I'm a bit confused about some of the dimensions.

The front and back walls (assuming a "warm way" configuration) are 225mm high. The other two are 202mm, so 23mm less. The rebates in the top and bottom side rails are 16mm and 7mm respectively. At the bottom, 7mm seems like a reasonable bee space measurement, so the bottoms of the side walls should presumably line up with those which would mean the tops of the side walls would align with the bottom of the rebate in the top rail. So far, so good.

Measuring the frame rails I have (also from Thornes) however, the "folded over" bit only appears to be 4mm high which isn't sufficient for a bee space under the frame lugs. Given 9mm thick frame lugs, it also means there would be 3mm above the frames to the top of the box. That really doesn't seem right.

Obviously I could position the frame rails so there is a 2 to 3mm gap between the folded side of the rail and the top of the wall that it rests on, but that feels a bit crap.

Am I missing something obvious?

James
 
when I put the boxes together, I just tack the rails on, lay a top bar over, then then push the side panels up until the top edge of the topbars are flush with the top of the box - there shouldn't be a bee space between the top of the bars and the top of the box in a BBS box
 
As Thorne are my local beekeeping supplies company here in the backwaters of Lincolnshire I feel I have to respond in defense. :D

In the YouTube videos of how to put together a Thorne brood box you attach the frame runner to the top of the side wall (warm way) and set it 11mm below the top of the box.

If you make the jig so you assemble the box upside down with the frame runner in place on the side wall. Set it on top of an 11mm block. The depth of the side wall doesn't matter. I've only put together 2nd and 3rd quality Thorne boxes and the depth of these sides varies, even may not be square. Doesn't matter as the bottom locking bar forms the bottom of the side wall.
 
when I put the boxes together, I just tack the rails on, lay a top bar over, then then push the side panels up until the top edge of the topbars are flush with the top of the box - there shouldn't be a bee space between the top of the bars and the top of the box in a BBS box

I suspect that if I did that at the moment I'd end up with something like 10mm over the lugs of the frames in the box below. (Not to mention triggering my OCD because the top and bottom faces of the wall may not be flush with the rebates on the side bars :D)

Seems odd to me that the way the rails are supplied (at least, the ones I have) mean that you get a smaller-than-beespace gap between the underside of the frame lug and the top of the sidewall though. That surely has to be inviting the bees to stick a load of propolis into the gap.

I may have some rails from elsewhere in the shed. Now the hornet isn't in residence perhaps I should try to find them to do a comparison.

James
 
In the YouTube videos of how to put together a Thorne brood box you attach the frame runner to the top of the side wall (warm way) and set it 11mm below the top of the box.

I'll have to watch the video. Using 11mm sounds like another recipe for getting propolis stuck everywhere.

I don't recall ever noticing this before. Perhaps I've never tried to be quite so precise before :D

James
 
the top and bottom faces of the wall may not be flush with the rebates on the side bars
they seldom are and I've put together hundreds as for the space under the lugs - I've never found it to be a problem - they will slap propolis between the ligs and the side of the locking bar regardless.
But then again, maybe my problem is I've never watched the videos :icon_204-2:
 
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I've had to watch the videos at least every couple of years. Never remember the 11mm or 7/16ths.
as long as you set it all up so that the top bars are flush with the top of the boxes, and the boxes are square, you don't need to fiddle around with measuring and sizing
 
as long as you set it all up so that the top bars are flush with the top of the boxes, and the boxes are square, you don't need to fiddle around with measuring and sizing

This is pretty much what I'm trying to do by making a jig -- so I just drop all the bits into place and I know they'll all be the correct spacing/square without having to do any further checking.

I guess if I always fit the runners to the tops of the walls before assembling everything else, I can cut up an old top bar and use it to fix the height. That would work neatly.

James
 
as long as you set it all up so that the top bars are flush with the top of the boxes, and the boxes are square, you don't need to fiddle around with measuring and sizing
:iagree:
I just use an old frame (as per JBM) & a set square plus a couple of clamps while I nail them together. Not had leaky hives, wasp incursions or anything coming apart so far.
 
I've had to watch the videos at least every couple of years. Never remember the 11mm or 7/16ths.
The added complication is measuring the bees to see if you have the metric Buckfast or the imperial AMM. By the time you have all the colony individuals measured and done the statistics to allow you to decide on the hive runner spacing you have lost the will to live (and care)!!!
 

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