They've been and gone

[manek]

First inspection today for 10 days as it’s been too cold to look any earlier. And what I feared has happened: my best colony which produced a massive harvest last year has swarmed.

Here’s how it happened: this was brood-and-a-half (super on top). So at the first inspection, I inserted a QX above the BB, intending to configure it back to a single brood box.

I had looked for HM and determined that she was downstairs. Somehow though, in the inspection, she nipped back into the super above the BB and was therefore isolated. She laid for three weeks until the super was wall to wall, much of it drones, as I discovered on the second inspection 10 days ago.

So 10 days ago, I released the trapped queen and drones back into the BB hoping and expecting to see the BB full of brood next time around - ie today.

Not so. Today the colony was a bit defensive, which made me wonder. And sure enough, there was one uncapped queen cell and zero young brood. They’ve been off – perhaps unsurprisingly as the super where she was trapped would have been very cramped.

I’ve swapped in a frame of young brood (eggs and larvae) from my second hive and I hope they’ll re-queen. I’ll leave them alone for a couple of weeks.

So the moral is: be absolutely sure where she before inserting a QX. I’ve probably made other mistakes as well...

 

[enrico]

First inspection today for 10 days as it’s been too cold to look any earlier. And what I feared has happened: my best colony which produced a massive harvest last year has swarmed.

Here’s how it happened: this was brood-and-a-half (super on top). So at the first inspection, I inserted a QX above the BB, intending to configure it back to a single brood box.

I had looked for HM and determined that she was downstairs. Somehow though, in the inspection, she nipped back into the super above the BB and was therefore isolated. She laid for three weeks until the super was wall to wall, much of it drones, as I discovered on the second inspection 10 days ago.

So 10 days ago, I released the trapped queen and drones back into the BB hoping and expecting to see the BB full of brood next time around - ie today.

Not so. Today the colony was a bit defensive, which made me wonder. And sure enough, there was one uncapped queen cell and zero young brood. They’ve been off – perhaps unsurprisingly as the super where she was trapped would have been very cramped.

I’ve swapped in a frame of young brood (eggs and larvae) from my second hive and I hope they’ll re-queen. I’ll leave them alone for a couple of weeks.

So the moral is: be absolutely sure where she before inserting a QX. I’ve probably made other mistakes as well...

It happens! Just makes you feel annoyed that you should have realised doesn't it? Was there any brood in the super when you put the qe in? Surprised she laid mainly drones! You usually get some at the bottom of the super but ......

 

[pargyle]

" And sure enough, there was one uncapped queen cell and zero young brood "
" I hope they’ll re-queen "

Sounds to me as though they already have .... where is the virgin queen from the uncapped queen cell ? - There would be unlikely to be many bees left if there had been a caste and normally in that situation you would expect multiple queen cells - are you sure they haven't just decided to supercede .... perhaps your machinations did for the old queen - or they just decided she had had her day ?

 

[manek]

Yes, there was some brood in the super, including drones near the bottom, but not exclusively.

 

[manek]

" And sure enough, there was one uncapped queen cell and zero young brood "
" I hope they’ll re-queen "

Sounds to me as though they already have .... where is the virgin queen from the uncapped queen cell ? - They would be unlikely to be many bees left if there had been a caste - are you sure they haven't just decided to supercede ....

No, not sure but the balance of probability given the previous circumstances and the Q cell hanging off the bottom of a super frame suggests a swarm is more likely. I think!

 

[pargyle]

No, not sure but the balance of probability given the previous circumstances and the Q cell hanging off the bottom of a super frame suggests a swarm is more likely. I think!

It's the old queen that swarms ... where is the new one from the queen cell ? Position of queen cells is a bit of a red herring at times - you can't rely on it for a diagnosis.

 

[manek]

It's the old queen that swarms ... where is the new one from the queen cell ?

The cell is still uncapped but has royal jelly in it. Now they have a frame of young brood, they have options.

 

[pargyle]

The cell is still uncapped but has royal jelly in it. Now they have a frame of young brood, they have options.

Ah ... so it's not uncapped as in the new queen has emerged ... it's uncapped as in it's a charged queen cell. Was there a grub in with the royal jelly - sometimes they are very small and not that easy to see ?.

My money would still be on supercedure as a result of the old queen failing then ....

They would normally swarm at the point the queen cell was developed and then capped so if there are no UNCAPPED queen cells as in - the new queen has emerged - they are unlikely to have swarmed. The lack of brood either tells you that they are getting ready to swarm and she is being slimmed down ready for the flight or ... she's not up to the job and they are superceding.

The risk you now run is that it's the former and if there was a grub in the queen cell, as soon as it's capped, they could be off ... tough call. Not sure what anyone else thinks but I'd have another look at that queen cell and if it's charged with a grub see if the old queen is still there and be ready to do an A/S if she is. Better safe than sorry - you can always recombine ... but once they've gone - they're gone !

 

[Boston Bees]

The cell is still uncapped but has royal jelly in it. Now they have a frame of young brood, they have options.

What makes you think they have gone?

 

[enrico]

The cell is still uncapped but has royal jelly in it. Now they have a frame of young brood, they have options.

So just to be clear....the queen cell hasn't yet been sealed rather than it has been uncapped! Sorry to be pragmatic but they are very different things

 

[pargyle]

So just to be clear....the queen cell hasn't yet been sealed rather than it has been uncapped! Sorry to be pragmatic but they are very different things

Precisely ... see above.

 

[pargyle]

What makes you think they have gone?

Agree ... I don't think they have .... unless there's something else we don't know.

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Think the mistake was not having supers on really...??

 

[pargyle]

Think the mistake was not having supers on really...??

To a degree ... I think, in the cicumstances, reducing from brood and a half to single brood at this time of the year may have been a mistake ... I think I would have left the brood and half (not that I'm any fan of this configuration but needs must) and with that much brood added a super with a QE between the brood and a half and the super.

Alternatively, rather than trying to contain them to one box ... demaree.

I'm not sure what Manek was trying to achieve in the first instance by reducing to a single brood box ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the Q cell hanging off the bottom of a super frame suggests a swarm is more likely.

Ah - that old myth again - for a start, if you think about it, that QC was not at the bottom of the nest, just at the bottom of a frame - which jut happened to be in the middle of the nest
which, if you adhere to the rationale of beekeeping mythology you could say it was almost definitely a supersedure cell.......
..........that is of course if you believe that bees wishing to swarm are compelled to stick a QC on a bottom bar, or if they are superseding it must be in the middle of the frame

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Agree ... I don't think they have .... unless there's something else we don't know.

probably a virgin running around in there, and mybe if you looked carefully, so is the old queen.
The mind sometimes decides what you should see, Manek has decided they have swarmed, so his mind would not see the old queen even if he searched

 

[enrico]

Precisely ... see above.

Yep except I didn't know that when I posted it as wrote them at the same time!!!!!

 

[pargyle]

Yep except I didn't know that when I posted it as wrote them at the same time!!!!!

Great minds think alike !

 

[ericbeaumont]

Manek,
Was the old queen clipped?

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Funnily im trying trying br1/2 for the first time on one hive... Super was chocka with brood too