The use of drone foundation pros and cons

[Garry R]

I have two points of discussion (more may come up!!) regarding the use of drone foundation. Firstly does anyone use it in supers as generally it seems to be worker brood comb foundation used. Secondly, does having one frame of sacrificial drone comb in the brood box help with varroa control as varroa apparently prefer/favour living with drone larvae? If so how often do you remove it and do you replace it with another? If you do use a frame of drone foundation does it prevent drone comb being drawn among worker brood comb as per normal elsewhere in the hive? I do recognise the importance of drones in the hive and that there must be compromises in this manipulation. Lots of questions here so any information and discussion would be of interest.

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I had used drone foundation in supers for many years, but stopped around five years ago.
The main reason being, for the amount of foundation we buy per year worker can be sourced far more competitively priced,
It's also a proper PIA should they queen appear in a super.
I Don't bother with drone trapping anymore as most of our broods have twelve frames for a little more laying space and they all get numorous oxalic blasts throughout the year, the instavap makes it so easy.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Drone foundation in supers.
Pros - bees don’t tend to store pollen in drone comb above the Qx
I think you get more honey per frame, but I may be wrong.
Cons, - if the queen gets in the supers you get one hell of a lot of trapped drones!!!

Drone foundation in BB
Pros - I put a drone frame in my boxes at no. 2/10 and find a well established colony will use this rather than dotting drones around the worker brood.
I don’t use this for drone culling but would be very convenient if that was your desire.

 

[drex]

I run double brood and put 2 shallows in top box. Under these the bees build drone comb, which I use for varroa monitoring and occasionally culling

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

does anyone use it in supers

I don't, it may mean a bit less pollen stored in the supers, but it's a PITA if the queen gets up there, the whole 'more honey' nonsense is a bit of a myth with the difference between drone and worker comb being minimal. And if you happen to attend shows, more often than not it looks awful in frames or cut comb, especially if the honey is a darkish medium colour.

does having one frame of sacrificial drone comb in the brood box help with varroa control

no - all obsessive drone culling does is reduce the number of drones available for mating

does it prevent drone comb being drawn among worker brood comb

no

 

[ericbeaumont]

drone foundation ... in supers

Tried and abandonded: bees are reluctant to fill drone cells with honey until later in the season. Try asking them to repair a blown super comb: drone cells appear and remain empty until absolutely necessary. You will (mathematically) yield slightly more honey but the gain is marginal, and the machine will object to extracting one part-filled comb in a full drum. For those reasons I recycle the occasional blown comb.

KBS has SN wired at 83.5p/sheet and SN cut comb drone unwired at 63.5p/sheet, so money can be saved. I prefer to use SN unwired worker cut comb foundation throughout supers, for both comb and extraction.

sacrificial drone comb in the brood box

Tried and abandonded: as HH said, decent treatment at other times makes culling uneccessary, so that's another job off the list. Apart from that, culling interferes with normal colony function; when I did try it, I would remove the first lot only, in the belief that residual over-wintered varroa would leap straight in, and that the loss would be outweighed by seasonal colony benefit.

 

[user 819]

If comb in supers is mixed they will leave the drone until the very last and even then may not touch it, if going to use drone then make sure all of it is drone and not mixed But tbh it is more a pain to bother with.

 

[Garry R]

Thanks everyone for the responses - I'll continue doing what I have done for years then!!

 

[Wingy]

Have used drone comb in supers for a few years but gradually getting rid of it. My reasoning / onservations
Did it in supers to gain more honey - did not really notice that much difference
Come winter prep I remove QX and leave a super made up of part filled / uncapped honey for the bees to top up on the balsam & ivy. If drone it’s a PIA come spring when the Q has laid in it.
For varroa control / monitoring I drop a super frame in the brood box and the comb below in spring will be drone. I’m working towards VSH so will not treat for varroa if not absolutely necessary This does not stop drone brood being produced elsewhere
Above makes drone culling easier if worker characteristics are not desirable and allows more drone production if desirable
Observations - using super starter strips for cut comb during a good flow the bees tend to build drone size comb

 

[elainemary]

I have two points of discussion (more may come up!!) regarding the use of drone foundation. Firstly does anyone use it in supers as generally it seems to be worker brood comb foundation used. Secondly, does having one frame of sacrificial drone comb in the brood box help with varroa control as varroa apparently prefer/favour living with drone larvae? If so how often do you remove it and do you replace it with another? If you do use a frame of drone foundation does it prevent drone comb being drawn among worker brood comb as per normal elsewhere in the hive? I do recognise the importance of drones in the hive and that there must be compromises in this manipulation. Lots of questions here so any information and discussion would be of interest.

When I was a relative beginner someone recommended using drone foundation in the supers as a way of storing more honey in less wax. I’m now reversing out of drone supers!

My main observation is whilst the bees fill them in spring, they fill last / slowest in summer. Almost a resistance from the bees to use them, in my experience, as soon as peak mating is over, late June.

Also as others have said, if you nadir, or take the queen excluder out over winter, they are the first frames the queen will preferentially lay in, early spring.

I’m now using / recycling them by melting out the wax, or using them in colonies I particularly like, for extra drone brood production.

 

[polymath]

Drone foundation in supers.
Pros - bees don’t tend to store pollen in drone comb above the Qx
I think you get more honey per frame, but I may be wrong.
Cons, - if the queen gets in the supers you get one hell of a lot of trapped drones!!!

Drone foundation in BB
Pros - I put a drone frame in my boxes at no. 2/10 and find a well established colony will use this rather than dotting drones around the worker brood.
I don’t use this for drone culling but would be very convenient if that was your desire.

Likewise i use 1 in 8 in the brood box, works well.