Swienty vs Abelo

[BMH]

If you use a queen excluder between the new-style Swienty brood box and supers, you might not have an issue - but if you don't use a QX, or you use double brood, as I and others have said, the frames become propolised against the box above it. This can result in very furious bees and I don't like that.

The new roof was an issue, but I don't think they make it anymore. They've gone back got the original roof - or that's what C Wynne Jones sell.

Kitta

Anyone have a picture of the old/new roof i.e. the one that isnt as good as the other.

Not sure what version I have got.

 

[Poly Hive]

Thanks Murray I was miss informed on that one. Chinese whispers are so reliable eh?

Just been painting my newly delivered Swienty floors and they have seriously changed. Where there was a lot of material it is now hollow. So.. much lighter but I have to wonder what loading they tested to?

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Though they must achieve thermal mass by altering the lateral box dimensions (either increasing the footprint and keeping 11 frames, or keeping the footprint and reducing to 10 frames)

Is this the only reason...or are there other reasons why they could not be made using the same thickness of poly as the wood used in the wooden national hives, 3/4" (19mm)

 

[ericbeaumont]

Is this the only reason...or are there other reasons why they could not be made using the same thickness of poly as the wood used in the wooden national hives, 3/4" (19mm)

Hmm. Thin poly likely to result in either insufficient structural strength or thermal inefficiency, or both. The BHS poly is thick (esp. where it matters, up top) and the hive was designed by Ross Dyter, a mechanical engineer with a specialisation in materials. This is what the BHS About Us page reveals: The poly hives were essentially just copies of a wooden beehive with the walls thickened to provide adequate strength.

I don't think anyone would care how many frames a box holds so long as it was strong, compatible with wood, did not deviate from BS spec. unless necessary, and maximised thermal efficiency. Had the interested parties sat down and chipped in to evolve a proper design (Consulting Thermodynamist D. Mitchell) one good mould may have been the result. Instead we have a small market over-populated with short-sighted manufacturers selling flawed products.

 

[Poly Hive]

Well, I care and it annoys me that Swienty won't take 11 as mine will only take 10.

PH

 

[Hivemaker.]

Well, I care and it annoys me that Swienty won't take 11 as mine will only take 10.

Perhaps they should supply them with lifts and call them WBC hives.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Well, I care and it annoys me that Swienty won't take 11 as mine will only take 10. PH

ITLD, post 117, Poly roofs thread: One of the oddest grumbles I ever got at Stoneleigh was someone who hated the one frame less option...wanted the full size interior...then when I saw him a couple of years later was very happy that another brand did what he wanted. He was using one frame less with a dummy board.

 

[BMH]

ITLD, post 117, Poly roofs thread: One of the oddest grumbles I ever got at Stoneleigh was someone who hated the one frame less option...wanted the full size interior...then when I saw him a couple of years later was very happy that another brand did what he wanted. He was using one frame less with a dummy board.

I think what's annoying is they are so close to taking 11 but it's a couple of mm out. I would have preferred a smaller cavity and do away with a dummy board/gap.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

[Into the lions den]

I hear you all, but you know there are two different spacings in use in the UK too? Depends which you have....the size that takes 11/12 of one, takes only 10/11 of the other. And with space to spare. As does the wood.

 

[Into the lions den]

If you use a queen excluder between the new-style Swienty brood box and supers, you might not have an issue - but if you don't use a QX, or you use double brood, as I and others have said, the frames become propolised against the box above it. This can result in very furious bees and I don't like that.

The new roof was an issue, but I don't think they make it anymore. They've gone back got the original roof - or that's what C Wynne Jones sell.

Kitta

The original roof...with the imprint of a box on top for doing splits...is borrowed from a Swedish National.

 

[Millet]

I hear you all, but you know there are two different spacings in use in the UK too? Depends which you have....the size that takes 11/12 of one, takes only 10/11 of the other. And with space to spare. As does the wood.

What do you mean by different spacing's please..do you mean the boxes or the hoffman frames which i use...the reason i ask is 11 frames fit into a national ceder box easy with a dummy board required or 12 if i felt the need with no dummy board...however the same type of frames fit 11 into the Lyson poly national boxes nice and snug with no dummy board required..

 

[Into the lions den]

There are two spacings of Hoffman frame. One a little wider than the other.

The spacing were reduced at some time quite a few years ago...but they were c1 1/2" and c1 3/8". Our historic Smith unit was all on the wider of the two. Adds up to over an inch over the width of the box. We have a lot of frames that historically came from Steele and Brodie and Lees of Uxbridge..they are all the wider spacing, varying a smidgen between 1 1/2 and 1 15/32.

How wide are your sidebars?

Your issues...either way...may be an artifact of this. British variations make it very difficult/expensive for a poly maker to meet everyones needs. The same issues happen in wooden hives.

FWIW we prefer the older, wider, spacing. Less cross comb and fewer 'bald patches' where the two midribs are too close for two full depth brood cells. However it is marginal and the differences are very slight.

 

[Madge]

Anyone have a picture of the old/new roof i.e. the one that isnt as good as the other.

Not sure what version I have got.

The original roof...with the imprint of a box on top for doing splits...is borrowed from a Swedish National.

Attached:

Swienty roofs: new, abandoned style on left; and original (but still in use) on right showing the imprint mentioned by ITLD. I do occasionally use them as floors.


Upside down: on left, the new style roof showing rounded corners and weak lip (as well as a lot of propolis when I used it without a crown board; you can't use wooden crown boards as they won't fit, and neither will they fit on a wooden hive), and on the right the old style Swienty roof


Swienty new - new style roof and new style floor


Swienty old with original roof and floor (the two bottom boxes are old style, and the top super is new style).


Kitta

 

[Madge]

Well, I care and it annoys me that Swienty won't take 11 as mine will only take 10.
PH

PH, either the outside footprint fits a wooden hive (small poly hives like Swienty), or the inside fits a wooden hive (behemoths like BHS and Paynes). Using a behemoth with wood looks a bit silly, but works. Compare the two combinations below:

 

[Millet]

There are two spacings of Hoffman frame. One a little wider than the other.

The spacing were reduced at some time quite a few years ago...but they were c1 1/2" and c1 3/8". Our historic Smith unit was all on the wider of the two. Adds up to over an inch over the width of the box. We have a lot of frames that historically came from Steele and Brodie and Lees of Uxbridge..they are all the wider spacing, varying a smidgen between 1 1/2 and 1 15/32.

How wide are your sidebars?

Your issues...either way...may be an artifact of this. British variations make it very difficult/expensive for a poly maker to meet everyones needs. The same issues happen in wooden hives.

FWIW we prefer the older, wider, spacing. Less cross comb and fewer 'bald patches' where the two midribs are too close for two full depth brood cells. However it is marginal and the differences are very slight.

36mm if that helps..

 

[Hivemaker.]

Metric equivalent... most hoffman spaced frames used in national standard deeps are 35mm, the old spacing and spacing they were designed for is 38mm, same as the old narrow metal end spacers... and modern plastic ones, only 11 of these will fit in a national hive with hardly any end space left.

I use the 38mm hoffman spacing and dislike the narrow 35mm.

 

[Poly Hive]

I know this MC but the 11th frame missing still niggles.

By the way I painted roofs today, arrived this week and they are "old style" so are they old stock or have Swienty started using that mold again?

PH

 

[BMH]

I know this MC but the 11th frame missing still niggles.

By the way I painted roofs today, arrived this week and they are "old style" so are they old stock or have Swienty started using that mold again?

PH

I think thats the only roof they use now?

I have been buying from CWJ over the past 4 years and thats the only roof I have.

Definitely looks a lot better than the 'new' one.

 

[BMH]

Attached:

Swienty roofs: new, abandoned style on left; and original (but still in use) on right showing the imprint mentioned by ITLD. I do occasionally use them as floors.
View attachment 16469

Upside down: on left, the new style roof showing rounded corners and weak lip (as well as a lot of propolis when I used it without a crown board; you can't use wooden crown boards as they won't fit, and neither will they fit on a wooden hive), and on the right the old style Swienty roof
View attachment 16470

Swienty new - new style roof and new style floor
View attachment 16471

Swienty old with original roof and floor (the two bottom boxes are old style, and the top super is new style).
View attachment 16472

Kitta

Thanks - that was really helpful.

Looks like all my Swienty is the new stuff, apart from the roof, which is the new, old, style!

 

[Millet]

Metric equivalent... most hoffman spaced frames used in national standard deeps are 35mm, the old spacing and spacing they were designed for is 38mm, same as the old narrow metal end spacers... and modern plastic ones, only 11 of these will fit in a national hive with hardly any end space left.

I use the 38mm hoffman spacing and dislike the narrow 35mm.

I must have been sold dud's if my measuring stick tell's me 36mm.. not to worry we can get around this issue for sure with my 36mm frames.. .