Swienty vs Abelo

[Madge]

... Why on earth did they not mould the rebate!

I think a rebate in the poly might have caused problems. Instead, some of the other poly hive manufacturers - for example BHS - have lowered the lug rise.

My solution with Swienty was to trim a couple of millimetres off the lug risers - or even less. That's relatively easy if you access to a bandsaw. I wouldn't want to do it with a handsaw.

Below: Swienty with lugs untrimmed, and trimmed (I think I've trimmed a bit too much off in this picture), and BHS below the Swienties.



BHS:

 

[BMH]

I think a rebate in the poly might have caused problems. Instead, some of the other poly hive manufacturers - for example BHS - have lowered the lug rise.

My solution with Swienty was to trim a couple of millimetres off the lug risers - or even less. That's relatively easy if you access to a bandsaw. I wouldn't want to do it with a handsaw.

Below: Swienty with lugs untrimmed, and trimmed (I think I've trimmed a bit too much off in this picture), and BHS below the Swienties.

View attachment 16464 View attachment 16463

BHS:
View attachment 16462

Aha... Thats a nifty idea. I have a table saw that would trim them down no problem. What did you take off? 3mm?

 

[Madge]

Aha... Thats a nifty idea. I have a table saw that would trim them down no problem. What did you take off? 3mm?

No, I think less than that - perhaps just a millimetre or two. I think what I've shown in the photo is perhaps too much. You don't want to restrict the space underneath the lugs too much either because then you'll start squashing or trapping the poor drones.

 

[BMH]

Sorry, I just reread, you did say 2mm.

Ok. I will give it a go at 1.5mm and see how I get on. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Poly Hive]

Don't forget the thickness the blade is removing. 2mm blade and 3 mm to cut 5 and so on.

PH

 

[BMH]

Don't forget the thickness the blade is removing. 2mm blade and 3 mm to cut 5 and so on.

PH

Ah yes. Good point.

It probably wants a saw blades thickness off.

Ill mod the fence and clamp a piece of wood on and see how I go...

 

[Beefriendly]

Wow...amazing stuff, companies selling goods that beekeeper needs to modify before being fit for purpose.
And the Abelo National hives don't even need painting.......

No contest .

 

[mbc]

I use the old style swienty boxes as double brood with no issues, I haven't got any of the new style and would probably err towards the abelo if I was to get new national poly brood boxes.

 

[GuyNir]

Wow...amazing stuff, companies selling goods that beekeeper needs to modify before being fit for purpose.
And the Abelo National hives don't even need painting.......

No contest .

No brainer really.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Wow...amazing stuff, companies selling goods that beekeeper needs to modify before being fit for purpose.

Just hope they don't start making their own nuts and bolts.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Wow...amazing stuff, companies selling goods that beekeeper needs to modify before being fit for purpose.
And the Abelo National hives don't even need painting.

You might think that if beekeepers relayed the faults of this incompetent hive directly to Swienty that they would resolve the design. Wood is easy to modify, but poly mould re-jigs are expensive and in the real world are not going to happen.

Swienty designed the hive originally as top bee space (which explains the lack of bottom rebate) but as UK Nationals are mostly bottom bee space, Swienty slowly woke up to the fact (having spent £10k on the mould!) that their box was incompatible and that they'd cut themselves out of a significant UK mix'n'match market.*

To compensate they supplied slot-in runners to convert to BBS and must have hoped that buyers wouldn't notice the bodge, or the the fact that the lack of a bottom rebate had now become a significant practical nuisance. Solutions: (1) Put away the saw, leave out the runners, paint the lug rests with varnish or gloss paint as per ITLD, and run them as TBS. (2) As the rebate is only one of about six design defects, write to Swienty and tell them what a thoughtless pig's ear they've had the nerve to put on the market. (3) Unless option 1 is adopted, don't buy any more.

*see the recent thread Poly roofs.

 

[BMH]

Honestly, £10k is absolute peanuts to Swienty!

Its a rubbish excuse. I think I am just going to make the switch to Abelo and call it a day. At least every thing is still interchangeable with Swienty and wooden components (which is what I have).

Dont want to go back to wooden broods/roofs but floors and supers are fine.

Shame really as I do like the Swienty boxes. I wont miss the assembly or the painting though!

 

[Hivemaker.]

Solutions: (1) Put away the saw, leave out the runners, paint the lug rests with varnish or gloss paint as per ITLD, and run them as TBS.

...and convert all your existing national BBS boxes to TBS so they fit in with the Swienty boxes.

Don't know why all these poly manufacturers don't just stick to the national hive specifications, exactly the same as the wooden hives.

 

[mbc]

My old style swienty boxes are bbs and for all their faults I like them.
The fact that the abelo boxes come ready to use out of the box and painted is the only reason I'd switch if buying new now, the lack of a bottom rebate is a non issue for me.

 

[Madge]

... Swienty designed the hive originally as top bee space (which explains the lack of bottom rebate) ...

To compensate they supplied slot-in runners to convert to BBS and must have hoped that buyers wouldn't notice the bodge ...

My old style swienty boxes are bbs and for all their faults I like them. ...

I'm not aware that Swienty's original style was TBS, Eric. Like MBC, my old-style Swienties are BBS - but the lug rest provided a small space above the lugs in the same way as the Bee Hive Supplies hive (see photo in post 21) - which avoids boxes being propolised together. Below is a picture of an old-style Swienty (pardon the view of insulation - I took the photo of an eke in winter while the hive was occupied).

I recently heard from a bee farmer that he uses Swienty Smith hives - so, maybe that's what you're thinking about, Eric? I still need to find out more about Swienty Smiths.

Old style Swienty:

 

[Madge]

My old style swienty boxes are bbs and for all their faults I like them.
The fact that the abelo boxes come ready to use out of the box and painted is the only reason I'd switch if buying new now, the lack of a bottom rebate is a non issue for me.

If Abelo did not have a rebate, it will suffer in the same way as the new style Swienties - so, I think the rebate is important in this hive. The hives can have a rebate because it is protected by plastic. If it wasn't protected, I think the bees would have chewed the polystyrene. The BHS solution was to drop the lug rise (as in the picture in post 21).

Kitta

 

[Poly Hive]

The Smiths are I believe a mould that belongs to Chain Bridge.

PH

 

[Into the lions den]

The Smiths are I believe a mould that belongs to Chain Bridge.

PH

Don't think so.

The ORIGINAL Swienty design was done as a compromise to allow National users to mix and match with wood. It was bottom bee space.

However the mould was done so as to be easily convertible to do Smiths, which were top bee space.

This brought some issues, and the lack of a rebate under the walls was one of them.

I know this because I gave the design brief and had co ownership of the mould.

This mould went out of service three or four years later and they made a new one that has not been especially popular for some reason. The boxes are fine as far as I can see, but the roof was poor. I have no share in the current mould after deciding poly sales was not a great idea after so many new and incompatible efforts came on the market.

The mould that Chainbridge had was, I believe, not done with Swienty but with Aulumgard, and was the same perimeter as a wooden smith, was for supers only, and only took 8 frames running cross wise.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I'm not aware that Swienty's original style was TBS, Eric. Like MBC, my old-style Swienties are BBS - but the lug rest provided a small space above the lugs in the same way as the Bee Hive Supplies hive (see photo in post 21) - which avoids boxes being propolised together.

Yet more pig's ears.

You're right, I looked at the base of the box and concluded that without a rebate only an idiot would consider it useful for BBS, so gave Swienty credit for setting out with the intention that it should be TBS. Whatever they were thinking, it didn't go so far as to allow (how could it?) for a mix'n'match with UK National wood. What conclusion was reached after trials of the new BBS runner-box? Did they really think that was fit for purpose?

Don't know why all these poly manufacturers don't just stick to the national hive specifications, exactly the same as the wooden hives.

Though they must achieve thermal mass by altering the lateral box dimensions (either increasing the footprint and keeping 11 frames, or keeping the footprint and reducing to 10 frames) there is no good reason for fiddling about with the vertical BS spec. In fact, there ought to be a special place in hell for any that try, and only Abelo would avoid the hot fork treatment.

 

[Madge]

... The boxes are fine as far as I can see, but the roof was poor. ...

If you use a queen excluder between the new-style Swienty brood box and supers, you might not have an issue - but if you don't use a QX, or you use double brood, as I and others have said, the frames become propolised against the box above it. This can result in very furious bees and I don't like that.

The new roof was an issue, but I don't think they make it anymore. They've gone back got the original roof - or that's what C Wynne Jones sell.

Kitta