Swarming - Learning about the different techniques

[E&MBees]

I have been reading up on the different techniques used to limit/control swarming. I have a nucleus box ready to use when the time comes and a second hive waiting to be constructed.

As a newbie, which methods are best? Are there any trust worthy videos on the internet that are worth watching?

Many thanks.

 

[Ian123]

With only 1 hive I would be inclined to simply take a couple of nucs off with ripe cells if I found any trying to swarm and be prepared to unite back before the main flow if you don’t want to increase. Other than that there’s a large number of methods of varying names but a simple artificial swarm would be the best bet for any new beek imo.

 

[Murox]

An Apiary Guide to Swarm Control - Wally Shaw

I have been reading up on the different techniques used to limit/control swarming. I have a nucleus box ready to use when the time comes and a second hive waiting to be constructed.

As a newbie, which methods are best? Are there any trust worthy videos on the internet that are worth watching?
Many thanks.

As mentioned there are multiple methods each with its own pros and cons. This paper/booklet http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf is worth reading carefully. It has some good information all round. Best advice would be KISS.

 

[drex]

When I started I was told to learn one method and stick to it for a year or two. I learned the Pagden. Good advice, as there are so many different methods it can get very confusing. I now use whichever method is more appropriate for the situation, but can still get muddled!

 

[E&MBees]

Thank you for the link.

 

[enrico]

Likewise. Learn one, when you have mastered it then experiment with others.the pagden method is a good start as it ingraines what allegedly happens during a real swarm, as close as we can replicate anyway.
E

 

[Beefriendly]

Pagden seems to work in some areas of the country, but it never worked in my area with local bees. The half with the queen happily swarmed again a few days later, every single time bar one....where she started laying again. Phew I thought,...wrong they drew queen cells from first eggs and left again. Pagden is simple but does require lots more kit and space.
I like the nuc method, assuming you can locate the queen....not always possible.

It takes time to get know your bees habits but consider swarm prevention methods like Demaree or Snelgrove method 1.

 

[E&MBees]

Pagden seems to work in some areas of the country, but it never worked in my area with local bees. The half with the queen happily swarmed again a few days later, every single time bar one....where she started laying again. Phew I thought,...wrong they drew queen cells from first eggs and left again. Pagden is simple but does require lots more kit and space.
I like the nuc method, assuming you can locate the queen....not always possible.

It takes time to get know your bees habits but consider swarm prevention methods like Demaree or Snelgrove method 1.

I suspect that given half a chance they will swarm if I am not on their case! They were a cast swarm, so the trait is there. However, despite that, they are relatively calm bees and I would like them to stay put!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Pagden seems to work in some areas of the country, but it never worked in my area with local bees. The half with the queen happily swarmed again a few days later, every single time bar one....where she started laying again. Phew I thought,...wrong they drew queen cells from first eggs and left again. Pagden is simple but does require lots more kit and space.
I like the nuc method, assuming you can locate the queen....not always possible.

It takes time to get know your bees habits but consider swarm prevention methods like Demaree or Snelgrove method 1.

either nuc the queen or preempt the whole thing by using Demarree

They were a cast swarm, so the trait is there.

I really struggle to understant that glib statement bandied by sone 'experts' all bees have a swarming 'trait' it's their job. Just because yours is a caught swarm doesn't mean they are more liable to swarm than any other - could be loads of reasons why they swarmed, poor beekeeping management being just one of them - it's not always the bees' fault although I admit I once had a colony who were notorious swarmers, no notice , no signs, they were just off - once in early season with plenty of space and just four frames of brood. Needless to say, that strain is no more

 

[Millet]

I suspect that given half a chance they will swarm if I am not on their case! They were a cast swarm, so the trait is there. However, despite that, they are relatively calm bees and I would like them to stay put!

I did a pagden some years ago with a North Yorkshire mongrel Queen..they swarmed the next day into a bait hive that I set up..

 

[E&MBees]

either nuc the queen or preempt the whole thing by using Demarree


I really struggle to understant that glib statement bandied by sone 'experts' all bees have a swarming 'trait' it's their job. Just because yours is a caught swarm doesn't mean they are more liable to swarm than any other - could be loads of reasons why they swarmed, poor beekeeping management being just one of them - it's not always the bees' fault although I admit I once had a colony who were notorious swarmers, no notice , no signs, they were just off - once in early season with plenty of space and just four frames of brood. Needless to say, that strain is no more

I wasn’t being glib or an expert. I was led to believe that some bees are more likely to swarm than others. Hopefully I can provide the right environment for them so that they don’t swarm.

 

[drex]

Sorry E&M.
You can do all the right things and the bees will still swarm. At least in my experience. In all aspects of beekeeping I encourage them in the direction I want them to go, and they still might not cooperate .

 

[Erichalfbee]

I was led to believe that some bees are more likely to swarm than others.

I don’t think they are. Different bees need different management, that’s all. You can’t keep prolific Carnica in a single standard National like you can Amm

 

[Swarm]

either nuc the queen or preempt the whole thing by using Demarree


I really struggle to understant that glib statement bandied by sone 'experts' all bees have a swarming 'trait' it's their job. Just because yours is a caught swarm doesn't mean they are more liable to swarm than any other - could be loads of reasons why they swarmed, poor beekeeping management being just one of them - it's not always the bees' fault although I admit I once had a colony who were notorious swarmers, no notice , no signs, they were just off - once in early season with plenty of space and just four frames of brood. Needless to say, that strain is no more

May swarm this year, fine the next or vice versa.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I wasn’t being glib or an expert.

It wasn't aimed at you but we constantly hear people on here writing off any caught swarm as having bad swarming genes - it's not true, for all you (the general beekeeping community) know this may be the first instance that colony or its forebears have swarmed in generations.

 

[E&MBees]

I don’t think they are. Different bees need different management, that’s all. You can’t keep prolific Carnica in a single standard National like you can Amm

Is there any way of working out what strain of bee you have? As mine were from a swarm, I do not know their heritage.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Is there any way of working out what strain of bee you have? As mine were from a swarm, I do not know their heritage.

Not simply, no
You are inspecting weekly in the season. You need to be prepared to give them room. Experience teaches you to read the bees. There aren’t any short cuts I’m afraid bar leaning on a decent mentor.

 

[E&MBees]

Not simply, no
You are inspecting weekly in the season. You need to be prepared to give them room. Experience teaches you to read the bees. There aren’t any short cuts I’m afraid bar leaning on a decent mentor.

I wasn’t looking for shortcuts. More than happy to do the work involved in caring for the bees. I was curious about whether it is possible to work out what type of bees I have. I would be interested to know.

 

[Swarm]

They are probably local mongrels, nowt wrong with that.

 

[Ian123]

They are probably local mongrels, nowt wrong with that.

Local mongrels are probably what the vast majority have and they can be fine learn the good and bad traits and if they show unwanted characteristics then think about replacing, but I have had some very good queens arrive in swarms as well as some very average.