Swarm now queenless

[Glenviewbee]

I hived a caste swarm on 4th June. Didn't disturb them then had a quick peek on 16th June - they had been busy drawing out 3 frames (they went onto foundation) and dummied down the box as there were only about 4/5 frames worth of bees. Bees were calm and busy flying and collecting pollen and nectar.
However no sign of a laying queen at that point.
On 30th June I had another look and found 3 queen cells being drawn.... these were charged and had larvae - These cells were all isolated from each other.
So - I'm thinking the bees are getting desperate and creating QCs from unfertilized worker eggs. Maybe the VQ got nabbed by a bird on her mating flight.
Today I look again - there are a few capped drone brood - sporadic, plus again charged QCs - one was pulled right out and capped - so I had a look inside - jelly but no larvae. BTW there are no cells with multiple eggs that I can see.
I'm now planning to unite this colony with a nuc I have with a laying queen - but, if there are laying workers will this be a problem if I then bring in a laying queen? As the swarm is relatively small I was going to do the air freshener unite, piling all the frames into a single brood box.
Advice appreciated - thanks

 

[YorkshireBees]

I hived a caste swarm on 4th June. Didn't disturb them then had a quick peek on 16th June - they had been busy drawing out 3 frames (they went onto foundation) and dummied down the box as there were only about 4/5 frames worth of bees. Bees were calm and busy flying and collecting pollen and nectar.
However no sign of a laying queen at that point.
On 30th June I had another look and found 3 queen cells being drawn.... these were charged and had larvae - These cells were all isolated from each other.
So - I'm thinking the bees are getting desperate and creating QCs from unfertilized worker eggs. Maybe the VQ got nabbed by a bird on her mating flight.
Today I look again - there are a few capped drone brood - sporadic, plus again charged QCs - one was pulled right out and capped - so I had a look inside - jelly but no larvae. BTW there are no cells with multiple eggs that I can see.
I'm now planning to unite this colony with a nuc I have with a laying queen - but, if there are laying workers will this be a problem if I then bring in a laying queen? As the swarm is relatively small I was going to do the air freshener unite, piling all the frames into a single brood box.
Advice appreciated - thanks

From your info I would be more inclined to say you have a DLQ rather than laying workers.
Where are the eggs? Are they at the bottom of the cells or on the side of the cells?

 

[Glenviewbee]

From your info I would be more inclined to say you have a DLQ rather than laying workers.
Where are the eggs? Are they at the bottom of the cells or on the side of the cells?

That's just it - I haven't ever spotted any eggs. It's like they get one egg and immediately start to cultivate it. When I first found the 'QC's I went through the frames really slowly and carefully to try and spot eggs or other larvae - nada.
Currently there are literally 4 capped drone brood cells, with currently 2 queen cells (charged with jelly) being drawn out. That's it.
A colleague in our association had a similar situation this year with a swarm he hived - never any sign of a queen but then QCs being drawn.

If it is a DLQ presumably I need to hunt for her before trying to combine with the nuc and laying queen? If I can't find her is it a huge risk to unite and leave it to the bees to sort it out? Might the DLQ 'win' or would the workers make sure she was ousted?

 

[masterBK]

Single castes are often not worth having and at this stage of the year whether it has laying workers or DLQ I wouldn't waste any more time on them and simply shake them out a few yards away from your other hives.

 

[Glenviewbee]

Single castes are often not worth having and at this stage of the year whether it has laying workers or DLQ I wouldn't waste any more time on them and simply shake them out a few yards away from your other hives.

Hadn't thought of that - thanks

 

[YorkshireBees]

Single castes are often not worth having and at this stage of the year whether it has laying workers or DLQ I wouldn't waste any more time on them and simply shake them out a few yards away from your other hives.

I always shake out suspected DLQ's as I feel it is the safest way and saves time tring to find the queen if she is present.

 

[Glenviewbee]

So I did the deed this afternoon - and felt a complete brute for doing so
I found it quite difficult to shake the bees off the frames - they'd been doing a grand job of collecting nectar so the uncapped stores were spraying everywhere (not ready for extracting then..!) So I resorted to my frame brush.
I ended up taking the whole hive away from the original position, then having an empty brood box another few yards away from the original box. As I took each frame out I brushed off the bees and then took the frame to the empty brood box. The pile of bees with the original box got bigger and bigger on the remaining fewer and fewer frames, so some of the bees endured being brushed off frames multiple times.
Finally there was no equipment left for them to cling to and they were pretty much in piles on the floor - seemed to be thousands There were a few that were determindly (is that actually a word?) bouncing off my veil but I managed to get away without any stings.
The bees have a choice of 3 other colonies within about 6m in various directions so I do hope they beg their way in somewhere.
Not a fun job

Oh yes - what would best practice be for the frames I removed? Some just stores, others with some brood patches and stores

 

[Arfermo]

Frankly, if its only DLQ I wouldn't waste them. Find and squish queen, insert frame of eggs from one of your other hives, wait 6 days to see they are utilising some eggs for QCs, knock down all but two that are charged, leave alone for 7 days, remove any new QCs, check the ones you kept from previous visit are capped and maybe ready for pulling the queen that day or the next and then leave alone until mated and laying , say a week later at this time of year when there are masses of frustrated drones around ready to do their part. Alternatively, just buy in a new mated queen after removing the old one.