Swarm control without increase or replacing queen

[steve_e]

I inspected my two hives yesterday and found that one hive is very busy and has started making Queen cups. No eggs in them so as I understand it they're likely to be just experimenting and considering the possibility of creating proper queen cells.

They are pretty full - eight good brood frames and three with stores (actually one was quite badly granulated so I've taken this out and replaced with foundation).

I put a super on a week ago which they've started to fill.

Thing is I've only had bees about three years and had a pretty disastrous year last year, so I'd quite like some experience of a good laying queen (this one is from last summer so still quite young) in a stable colony, rather than increasing the number of colonies or replacing the queen etc.

What would be a good way of managing the swarm instinct here, while keeping the same queen?

The other colony is building up by the way, but is still quite week. They're in a 14*12 brood box with several frames still not drawn out. If it would help I could remove one or more brood frames from the strong one?

 

[oliver90owner]

Lots of choice.

Maybe increase the colony number throughout the summer and reduce before winter - avoids disasters such as not having a queen at the right time if something goes awry in a colony (or two).

A/S and recombine (at the start of a flow, preferably).

Demaree will avoid the swarming problem for a while at least, as will giving them plenty of brood space as well as supers - remember they can collect a lot of nectar which will be evaporated to honey moisture, so they need more space than perhaps you think.

Type of bee may be in the equation, so a change could be very beneficial to your problem solving.

Weakening the strong colony to augment the weaker one will certainly slow the onset of the swarming instinct, but again you may be better off changing that queen. It will help the weaker colony unless there is some underlying reason for the tardiness. Have you thought that there may be too much space for them at this present time?

The above points should make you think about your colony management throughout the season, not just at the present time. Beekeeping is about keeping ahead of the bees and steering them in the direction you would like them to take.

You also need to analyse what went wrong, and why, during last year. It was probably down to inexperience. Be honest with yourself and think of any better alternatives that could have been employed then. Learn from it. Second year is often harder than the first for a variety of reasons - again, think about that one, too.

Experience counts for quite a lot. One year does not really give enough to cope with all the options, unless you sit down and carefully look at all the options and work out the possibilities further down the line. Taking the first option from this forum can easily lead you up the garden path - there are too many out there that simply don't think (or know) your particular situation and recite the standard (possibly the only one they think to use) fix without further ado.

RAB

 

[drstitson]

what you want if effective swarm control AND "guarantee" that you have decent colonies, headed by decent queens, going into winter.

AS as usual and reunite after the flow.

IMHO probably good idea to also keep a spare nuc over winter in case of losses though.

 

[Finman]

I inspected my two hives yesterday and found that one hive is very busy and has started making Queen cups. No eggs in them so as I understand ?

Every hive makes queen cell cups. As long as they have no eggs, it means nothing.

 

[Finman]

They are pretty full - eight good brood frames and three with stores (actually one was quite badly granulated so I've taken this out and replaced with foundation).
?

Now you have a super.

Give more space under the brood, and give a foundation box there. Put into there those food store frames in the middle of the box.

-store-found- store-found-store -

Put 3 foundations into brood box in one group.

If you put foundations here and there between other combs, bees usually prefer to draw old combs longer than draw foundations.


Bees draw the foundations. At same time they start to clean store combs for brood and they mobilize the old winter food. Crystallized is honey and non crystallized is sugar.


The drawing of foundatios prevent swarming.

When the lower box has been drawn, turn over those two brood boxes and add supers as much as they occupye them.
.

 

[Finman]

Weakening the strong colony to augment the weaker RAB

A brood box and super is not strong colony. It is minimum colony.

But 7 full brood frames is much in a small hive. When those brood emerge, you will have 4 boxes full of bees. It depends how old are those brood.

A good queen lays in one week a box full of brood. I do not know the histrory of build up, but it is now still a small colony.

5 box and two brood with 15 frames of brood is a big colony when apple trees are in full bloom.

 

[oliver90owner]

the strong colony

Relativity and all that, Finman. I was simply answering the OP, not like you, telling him what he already knows (OP:... they're likely to be just experimenting and considering the possibility of creating proper queen cells... Finman:Every hive makes queen cell cups. As long as they have no eggs, it means nothing.

Let not be too prescriptive - very tiny colonies may not.

I know about relativity. Depends whether you are moving or the observed item is - and you seem to like to misquote (continually) - not only left and right but centre too. Poor form really. Shows your colours too easily.

It might help if you responded tio the OP instead of playing games.

Try this one. Finman said: It depends how old are those brood.

Finman, they will all be less than 24 days old or they would have emerged.

Finman said: Crystallized is honey and non crystallized is sugar.

Just not true is it? Even you ought to know that sugar syrup does not crystallise (on its own) but neither do quite a lot of blossom honeys and honeydews. If accuracy is everything, be careful.

 

[Vergilius]

the strong colony

Relativity and all that, Finman. I was simply answering the OP, not like you, telling him what he already knows (OP:... they're likely to be just experimenting and considering the possibility of creating proper queen cells... Finman:Every hive makes queen cell cups. As long as they have no eggs, it means nothing.

Let not be too prescriptive - very tiny colonies may not.

I know about relativity. Depends whether you are moving or the observed item is - and you seem to like to misquote (continually) - not only left and right but centre too. Poor form really. Shows your colours too easily.

It might help if you responded tio the OP instead of playing games.

Try this one. Finman said: It depends how old are those brood.

Finman, they will all be less than 24 days old or they would have emerged.

Finman said: Crystallized is honey and non crystallized is sugar.

Just not true is it? Even you ought to know that sugar syrup does not crystallise (on its own) but neither do quite a lot of blossom honeys and honeydews. If accuracy is everything, be careful.

RAB's post was good advice.

Finman,

A brood box and super is not strong colony. It is minimum colony.

You know - and we all know - that he meant stronger, so stop being so pedantic...

It seems as if you often use this forum as a means of exercising a perverse desire of yours to undermine everything that is said... As RAB says, why doesn't the expert himself give some more meaningful advice, rather than trying to pick out the non-existent mistakes of others?

Ben P

 

[fatshark]

One possibility might be to use a Horsley board (G**gle is your friend here) to generate a two queen box for the season. At the end of the year this can be combined for overwintering, or - if your needs have changed - separated into two colonies. Or, as RAB says, you could requeen the weaker colony. Note that it's still early in the season and colonies develop at different rates (I have one currently lagging in numbers but the queen is laying very tidily and the bees are well behaved ... it will take several more weeks until I decide she isn't up to the job) - your weaker colony may pick up spectacularly in the next fortnight.

 

[Finman]

RAB's post was good advice.

Finman,

I believe 3 hive owners. They are allways right because they allways run with 100% of their knowledge.

.

 

[Finman]

the strong colony

Relativity and all that, Finman. I was simply answering the OP, not like you, telling him what he already knows (OP:... they're likely to be just experimenting and considering the possibility of creating proper queen cells... Finman:Every hive makes queen cell cups. As long as they have no eggs, it means nothing.

Let not be too prescriptive - very tiny colonies may not.

I know about relativity. Depends whether you are moving or the observed item is - and you seem to like to misquote (continually) - not only left and right but centre too. Poor form really. Shows your colours too easily.

It might help if you responded tio the OP instead of playing games.

Try this one. Finman said: It depends how old are those brood.

Finman, they will all be less than 24 days old or they would have emerged.

Finman said: Crystallized is honey and non crystallized is sugar.

Just not true is it? Even you ought to know that sugar syrup does not crystallise (on its own) but neither do quite a lot of blossom honeys and honeydews. If accuracy is everything, be careful.

I think about that..remember pills,,

.