Swarm & colony survival in the wild

[viridens]

I was called out to collect a swarm from a local garden yesterday afternoon, but I arrived just too late. The swarm had headed off into the nearby woods (many acres) I had a brief scout around, but it was an impossible needle in a haystack job.

This started me wondering. Each year many swarms must go 'back to nature' in this way. How do they manage without us? Do they thrive? Do they over-winter successfully? Do they get wiped out by Varroa?

Does anyone have experience with observing or monitoring these colonies in the wild?

 

[Chris Luck]

Plenty here in France all over the place, hollow trees, cavities in stone walls, cavities in roof spaces, even cavities in the ground under old trees, they seem to do as well as bees in hives but then there's no reason why they shouldn't - what's the difference?

Chris

 

[mazzamazda]

Varroa treatment?

 

[Midland Beek]

Found a wild bee nest in the hollow of a tree on the other day.

 

[Chris Luck]

Strange that, there's people on this forum that say there are no "wild bees" in the UK anymore, but then that said, all bees are wild, they can't ever possibly be called domesticated any more than if you breed butterflies or maggots.

Chris

 

[simonf]

Talking to a local council pest controller and he said he knows of at least 2 feril colonys living in buildings which throw of swarms every year and have been going for at least 5 years.

 

[Chris Luck]

Careful what you say Simon, heresy is still a cardinal sin.

Chris

 

[viridens]

Thanks for the replies

From what I can see from searching around online, the 'experts' predictions for feral colonies has changed from "varroa destructor will wipe out all feral bee colonies in the UK within three years" in the 90's to "Our research project is centered on studying and sampling feral colonies of Apis M. which may hold the key to defeating varroa" in 2010. Nature knows best?

 

[Foxylad]

I know of a wild collony about a mile from my apairy in a large oak tree. There are two swarm boxes not to far away
I checked the hives today and had a quick **** at the tree. There were several bees crawling around with deformed wings. The colony is very strong, not sure of the fate come autumn?

 

[Chris Luck]

The colony is very strong, not sure of the fate come autumn?

You're not clairvoyant then.

Chris

 

[Poly Hive]

The thinking was in the beginning of the infestation in the UK that no colony would survive much more than four years with out treatment, and that figure was based on research in Europe, mainly German which suggested that it was true.

However as we all know bees do not read the texts nor the research papers, and so there are the odd one that exists.

Another however is though are these non treated colonies the same one each year or repopulated by swarms when the previous occupants have died out?

PH

 

[justme]

A friend has had bees in farm barn opposite main house entrance for the last 40 years. (They swarmed 2 years ago, so I have bait box there but nothing yet). No-one is sure whether they are the same colony but no-one can remember there not being bees there.

 

[Chris Luck]

However as we all know bees do not read the texts nor the research papers, and so there are the odd one that exists.

Another however is though are these non treated colonies the same one each year or repopulated by swarms when the previous occupants have died out?

As I'm sure you have carefully read the French INRA studies that took place over 15 years that I have previously posted you will have seen that the honey bees in France soon "adjusted" and after the initial declines in the 1980's when varroa arrived here feral colonies expanded again. The fact that many colonies failed initially can be seen as good as it allowed them to be weaned out from the gene pool and allow natural selection to take its course.

You also know that I keep bees successfully without treatment and I also know of many feral colonies that are continuously inhabited, in fact I passed one tonight when walking the dogs and I also know of one property where there are three, one in a tree in the garden, one in the wall of the house where a window has been blocked and one in a blocked chimney.

Chris

 

[greatbritishhoney]

There is an Ash tree on my land that has had a new swarm in it pretty much every year since we have lived here (even before I started beekeeping). They always die off over winter and the hole is then occupied by jackdaws through spring before a new swarm takes up residence when they fledge.
No idea why they die off, but they do every year.

 

[RoseCottage]

Someone put it really well a little while ago...

We beekeepers treat our bees to protect them from disease and pests but actually we never allow them to adapt to the conditions. We hold them back. Left alone they would adapt just like they have for millions of years (all their successful physiology and organisation has been in response to opportunities and threats).

Sam

 

[Andre cardona]

i got a swarm from a feril colonys living in tree which throw out swarms every year i have a bate hive set up this year

 

[merylvingien]

Someone put it really well a little while ago...

We beekeepers treat our bees to protect them from disease and pests but actually we never allow them to adapt to the conditions. We hold them back. Left alone they would adapt just like they have for millions of years (all their successful physiology and organisation has been in response to opportunities and threats).

Sam

If the world was normal i would agree with your ideals, as naturally pest species such as varoa would take many years to become established. The bees would have time to become acustomed to this and like the borg "adapt".

The worlds problems apart from over population (dont get me started on THAT) stem from intercontinental travel via planes. All too easy to send somefink from one side of the planet to the other within 24 hours these days.

I have the distinct feeling that it will be the downfall of mankind at some point in time. Probably be the best thing that happened to this planet if truth be told.

 

[RoseCottage]

Paul,
I empathise with your view and think our species tenure is only short and the planet will continue turning and sorting itself out. We overstate the impact of humanity sometimes and if you care to take a geologic view our impact is likely to be small.

Bees will outlast their keepers.

Sam

 

[Chris Luck]

But the point is merylvingien this situation has already occurred with bees and varroa here in France, they survive quite well without treatment. For all I know it's the same in the UK and there may well be people successfully keeping bees without treatment, in fact I'm sure there are.

As far as colonies sometimes "dying out" goes, well they would do wouldn't they?

Chris

 

[666bees]

The same here, caught three swarms from one must be large ferral colony this year. The ferral colony appears to be sufferring from vorra so I'm going to treat them as they will be a good source of swarms each year.