Swarm caught in July ain't worth a fly?

[admanga]

I put out three hives as swarm traps in June, two double Warre's and one Dadant 10 brood box. For lack of spares, I took back the crown board from the Dadant to use elsewhere. As luck would have it, a swarm was caught by the Dadant sometime between 7 and 20 July.

The swarm trap that worked was facing south, in half shade, at a height of about 1m30, perched in the window space of an abandoned shed. It contained 5 frames, one of drawn comb, four of foundation, one end frame replaced by a block of insulation (because I believe a D10 is much too big). I left an empty space in the middle, in the belief that scouts are attracted to a large volume. I used lemon grass oil as bait. I had put cardboard over the ventilated floor grill. I put an old piece of metal sheet and a branch on top to provide some shade.

The caught bees look like Buckfast and were very passive during my first look inside. And I gave them plenty of reasons to get angry, unfortunately. They have build two natural comb from the roof rather than build out the foundation.

One very large comb broke off from the roof, but remained between frames, fixed to the sides of the brood chamber, while the other was glued to the roof and I cut that off and placed between frames. A small part was lost, which I examined afterwards and saw young brood. My old eyes did not notice this while the hive was open. Good news that the queen is laying.

I closed up the box with a recovered crown board and its roof.

I suspect that if I leave the bees for too long, the wild comb will only get more difficult to deal with. The next thing to do is to go back into the hive, extract the large comb that is fixed at the sides and place it in an empty frame (masking tape or wire). And then feed the swarm syrup to get it through an expected dearth of nectar in August and promote laying. Is that a reasonable approach?

Despite being caught in July, this swarm is valuable. If the hive does not reach a good size before winter then I would merge it with another which started from a five-frame nucleus in June (swarm from May), currently also in Dadant.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Despite being caught in July, this swarm is valuable.

Not worth a fly alludes to the fact that they won’t give you honey that year not that they aren’t worth keeping.

 

[Richard]

Not worth a fly alludes to the fact that they won’t give you honey that year not that they aren’t worth keeping.

That's nice to hear. I collected a swarm yesterday (1st Aug). It was the largest I've had so far (this is my 3rd).

I haven't been expecting any honey from any of the swarms I've had, although the one that moved into my bait hive in May looks like it might fill a super. There were around 7 frames drawn and full of nectar yesterday when I inspected which they have done in about 10 days.

 

[admanga]

The next thing to do is to go back into the hive, extract the large comb that is fixed at the sides and place it in an empty frame (masking tape or wire). And then feed the swarm syrup to get it through an expected dearth of nectar in August and promote laying.

Tying broken comb into a massive Dadant frame didn't go very well. Its over 30 degreeC so the comb was very soft. The tying wire wanted to slice through it rather than support it. Masking tape was not up to the task. I've watched a video of this done successfully for Warre with tiny frames, but its not applicable to large frames. I left the bees with comb wired into a frame, but afraid it will not stay upright as the wires were cutting through the comb in places.

 

[rolande]

Tying broken comb into a massive Dadant frame didn't go very well. Its over 30 degreeC so the comb was very soft. The tying wire wanted to slice through it rather than support it. Masking tape was not up to the task. I've watched a video of this done successfully for Warre with tiny frames, but its not applicable to large frames. I left the bees with comb wired into a frame, but afraid it will not stay upright as the wires were cutting through the comb in places.

It is perfectly applicable with larger frames (I use modified dadant so have some idea of the possibilities. However, it's not really suitable with any frame in the hight of summer with brand new, soft, comb. Much better to leave untill the spring if at all possible when the come will be dryer, firmer and a little more stable.

 

[admanga]

@rolande Ah! I see. Better with older comb. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Sutty]

The version I've heard/read was: "Swarming in July - let the buggers fly!"
This would imply not worth catching, but I think the rhyme dates back to the days of skep beekeeping, so rather different.

 

[pargyle]

Tying broken comb into a massive Dadant frame didn't go very well. Its over 30 degreeC so the comb was very soft. The tying wire wanted to slice through it rather than support it. Masking tape was not up to the task. I've watched a video of this done successfully for Warre with tiny frames, but its not applicable to large frames. I left the bees with comb wired into a frame, but afraid it will not stay upright as the wires were cutting through the comb in places.

Rubber bands ... the big ones that the Postman seems to like to leave on our drive ! They work well and you can just criss-cross them across the frames to hold the comb in place. It works for soft comb and really you only need to hold it in place for a short time as the bees will rapidly lock it in. I would not leave a swarm to their own devices and empty space until spring - you will have a right mess to sort out by then.

 

[North End Bees]

The version I've heard/read was: "Swarming in July - let the buggers fly!"
This would imply not worth catching, but I think the rhyme dates back to the days of skep beekeeping, so rather different.

And back then it didn't cost £5k+ for the unfortunate householder to pay to get the swarmed bees removed from their town house chimney.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Could this rhyme go back to when bees were kept in skeps. Didn't they shake the bees out at the end of every season to take the honey?
The rest of the rhyme does talk about "loads of hay" and "silver spoons".

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Could this rhyme go back to when bees were kept in skeps.

it does

 

[admanga]

The title of this thread was appropriate. I lost the swarm.

Either they ran out of food, absconded, or have been robbed. Given that plenty of capped brood remained, it seems unlikely that they absconded. There were no nectar stores remaining and the feeder box was empty but for some dead bees, while yesterday it felt heavy (I guessed 0.5 kg remained). There were a few dead bees on the floor of the hive and the few remaining live bees were still wandering around.

They had built out three frames of comb and plenty of capped brood remains. Their numbers seemed to have dwindled very quickly while still building so much comb. Right now, I blame myself - I’m afraid that I did not feed them enough to get them though even just the start of the dearth of August.

The intervention four days ago to cut wild comb and support it in a frame actually worked. Even though my fixing comb in a frame with wire was barely up to the job, the bees had successfully glued the comb in place and it had remained vertical.

 

[Richard]

I inspected the swarm I collected this afternoon. They have drawn 6 frames and there is bias and stores in all of them. They are doing really well. Possibly due to them being really close (about 100m in a straight line) to tonnes of Himalayan Balsam.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Tying broken comb into a massive Dadant frame didn't go very well. Its over 30 degreeC so the comb was very soft. The tying wire wanted to slice through it rather than support it. Masking tape was not up to the task. I've watched a video of this done successfully for Warre with tiny frames, but its not applicable to large frames. I left the bees with comb wired into a frame, but afraid it will not stay upright as the wires were cutting through the comb in places.

Rather than wire or even postal elastic bands I have successfully used string and a couple of drawing pins. A week later the bees had joined the bits of comb together and anchored it to the frame. I used scissors to remove excess string. Job done.