Swapping out stores for foundation (?)

[boywonder]

Quick question, I have a fairly busy 14x12 hive, which I have today supered - mainly to give more space.

The brood box contains 11 frames, F1-3 are full of stores. F4-8 are full of BIAS (I mean FULL - pretty much no stores - all brood), and F9-11 are full of stores. The queen is laying-up literally every single available cell with eggs. Maybe the super will help alleviate the issue to some degree, but I am considering taking out some stores and swapping-in some (probably two) frames of foundation into the brood chamber - either side of the brood nest. I have no spare drawn comb.

Numpty question - sorry; but, if I do this, would I be replacing the outermost frames (i.e. F1 and 11), or the innermost frames (I.e. F3 and 9) … and why. Thanks very much.

 

[john t]

ordinarily i would be looking to replace a few old frames with new foundation each year as part of my frame replacement plan,

which ones you remove is not so critical, usually the black and worst looking is what i do , placing the fresh foundation near to the nest so it gets drawn out and if the weather is warm and you have a strong colony they can be interspaced within the nest,
although in your case position f3 &f9 would work well

dont put them on the ends, as the bees are reluctant to work them

 

[mickbees23]

Either side of the brood area there is often a frame of mainly pollen, I would put foundation outside of those frames unless you have some nasty frames that need removing. Do keep a check on how much stores are available though as the weather can change fast this time of year and the bees can run out of food quick. If the super is foundation you could feed to help draw out but I would avoid feeding if its drawn comb. If it is foundation then I would uncap the stores in the brood box and hope they use it to draw the super out.

Cheers, Mike.

 

[boywonder]

thanks both. So nearer to the brood nest is the idea. I take on board the point about not splitting the brood nest from its pollen stores. My 'frame 3' is laden with pollen on the side facing the brood nest, so I will probably leave that be, or replace 'frame 2 instead'.

What are the thoughts on instead removing e.g. frames 1 and 11, and sticking the two frames bang in the centre of the brood box ? I appreciate this will split the brood, but I also guess that the bees are going to be more inclined to draw the foundation somewhere the queen is going to be wanting to lay.

Is this a 'no-no' ?? Cheers

 

[madasafish]

thanks both. So nearer to the brood nest is the idea. I take on board the point about not splitting the brood nest from its pollen stores. My 'frame 3' is laden with pollen on the side facing the brood nest, so I will probably leave that be, or replace 'frame 2 instead'.

What are the thoughts on instead removing e.g. frames 1 and 11, and sticking the two frames bang in the centre of the brood box ? I appreciate this will split the brood, but I also guess that the bees are going to be more inclined to draw the foundation somewhere the queen is going to be wanting to lay.

Is this a 'no-no' ?? Cheers

I would NEVER split a brood nest in Spring. Never. It's a critical time of the year for the hive to build up. The queen may end up isolated on one small section of combs and be unable to lay as they are all full..thus defeating the purpose of the exercise..

 

[boywonder]

I would NEVER split a brood nest in Spring. Never. It's a critical time of the year for the hive to build up. The queen may end up isolated on one small section of combs and be unable to lay as they are all full..thus defeating the purpose of the exercise..

Nice. Thanks. That was my suspicion also.

 

[Poly Hive]

If I am reading this right you have supered on 5 frames of brood. Personally, I super on 8.

Your stores frames which are blocking expansion. Instead of giving the bees foundation try this please. With the flat of your hive tool bruise the cappings and place the bruised frame next to the outer brood frame and repeat on the other side of the brood nest and next week let me know how it went? Oh and I would take that super off.

PH

 

[maddydog]

If I am reading this right you have supered on 5 frames of brood. Personally, I super on 8.

Your stores frames which are blocking expansion. Instead of giving the bees foundation try this please. With the flat of your hive tool bruise the cappings and place the bruised frame next to the outer brood frame and repeat on the other side of the brood nest and next week let me know how it went? Oh and I would take that super off.

PH

Bruising cappings has never worked for me The bees have always just capped it back over. Luckily I always have spare drawn comb and comb full of stores is useful for nucs.

 

[Poly Hive]

How odd when it works for me and the Bee Farmer I learned it from. Possibly you are not bruising sufficiently?

In my hands I will guarantee a couple of frames of brood each week from the technique.

PH

 

[Brigsy]

How odd when it works for me and the Bee Farmer I learned it from. Possibly you are not bruising sufficiently?

In my hands I will guarantee a couple of frames of brood each week from the technique.

PH

Do they move the stores or does this encourage them to use? Ta

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[Erichalfbee]

I would NEVER split a brood nest in Spring. Never. It's a critical time of the year for the hive to build up. The queen may end up isolated on one small section of combs and be unable to lay as they are all full..thus defeating the purpose of the exercise..

Not a fan of “Checkerboarding” the brood box frames, then?

 

[madasafish]

Not a fan of “Checkerboarding” the brood box frames, then?

Nope.

 

[Poly Hive]

Given there are no supers on when I do this the stores are consumed as far as I can tell.

It's nothing new, pretty sure Manley mentions it somewhere, though I may be wrong in that attribution.

PH

 

[Brigsy]

ta

 

[deemann1]

If I am reading this right you have supered on 5 frames of brood. Personally, I super on 8.

Your stores frames which are blocking expansion. Instead of giving the bees foundation try this please. With the flat of your hive tool bruise the cappings and place the bruised frame next to the outer brood frame and repeat on the other side of the brood nest and next week let me know how it went? Oh and I would take that super off.

PH

I'll try this too

 

[maddydog]

How odd when it works for me and the Bee Farmer I learned it from. Possibly you are not bruising sufficiently?

In my hands I will guarantee a couple of frames of brood each week from the technique.

PH

First couple of times I scraped a decent patch, after that didn't work I skinned a few completely, same result.
Just one of those things I guess.

 

[drex]

After bruising I always spray with water. Gives the a start on dealing with the rock hard honey. Works for me.. If not sprayed they are slow to deal with emptying those combs.