Suspected DLQ or laying worker problem

[beenovice]

I have a hive that has been suspected queenless for about 4 weeks. No sign of any eggs or new brood.
9 days ago, I introduced a new buck fast queen. The cage clip was removed 8 days ago. I have looked today and the new queen is fine and well. However there is considerable capped and uncapped messy drone brood. It is very sporadic and no real evidence of worker brood.
As some of it is capped, I doubt it is from the new queen ( clip removed 8 days ago)
My question is what to do? I have other nucs and hives that could do with being combined if that is an option.

 

[Skyhook]

I would not do anything in haste. If the queen is in there let her get established. Try not to inspect too much, it can result in a new queen getting balled- I would leave for at least a fortnight after introduction.

 

[oliver90owner]

I would doubt this capped brood is viable - certainly not if what you categorically state in your post.

I quote: no sign of any eggs or new brood ( line one of your post)

Yet now you have 'messy uncapped drone brood' after a new queen has been introduced recently.

Most find it very difficult to differentiate between drone and worker brood in worker cells before it is about due to be capped or after it is capped. I am quite sure that any currently capped brood is not the result of this recently uncaged queen, but cannot be totally sure as I am not aware of her history. It would clearly be very minimal at the most.

You say you have seen the queen. Are you positive it is the one introduced? Is she a marked queen?

Is there any decent areas of laying space in which she could lay up a good pattern?

If you have other nucs and hives which need uniting, then I would suggest you get on and unite them. It will not affect this colony? It might even help to know what other nucs and hives you have, apart from this one. It would appear, from your post, that you have at least two of each.

I would be inclined to agree with Skyhook - do nothing in haste. Sort out exactly what you have before considering any course of a precipitate nature. Beekeeping is not a guessing game.

 

[beenovice]

I would doubt this capped brood is viable - certainly not if what you categorically state in your post.

I quote: no sign of any eggs or new brood ( line one of your post)

Yet now you have 'messy uncapped drone brood' after a new queen has been introduced recently.

Most find it very difficult to differentiate between drone and worker brood in worker cells before it is about due to be capped or after it is capped. I am quite sure that any currently capped brood is not the result of this recently uncaged queen, but cannot be totally sure as I am not aware of her history. It would clearly be very minimal at the most. It is dummies down to 7 frames.

You say you have seen the queen. Are you positive it is the one introduced? Is she a marked queen?

Is there any decent areas of laying space in which she could lay up a good pattern?

If you have other nucs and hives which need uniting, then I would suggest you get on and unite them. It will not affect this colony? It might even help to know what other nucs and hives you have, apart from this one. It would appear, from your post, that you have at least two of each.

I would be inclined to agree with Skyhook - do nothing in haste. Sort out exactly what you have before considering any course of a precipitate nature. Beekeeping is not a guessing game.

Sorry RAB, what do you mean by "viable". Do you mean you doubt it is worker brood?
I also doubt that any capped brood is a result of the new queen, due to the timings of release. She was unclipped 8 days ago, and it does it not take 8 days to cap cells?
I am certain it is the queen introduced that I have seen. She is marked with 2014 colours.
As for laying space, there is plenty of space, but the comb is very messy. I was in the process of carrying out a bailey change back in April when I was forced into an AS, so it never got changed.
As for other hives and nucs, I have 2 nucs. 1 of which is very strong and is due to go into a brood this week. The other is doing ok.
I also have hive 1 that has a super on. It swarmed early may. A queen emerged last Saturday. No sign of eggs yet.
Hive 2 was a very small swarm, collected early May. It is on 2-3 frames, but developing slowly. I was thinking of dropping this into a nuc.
Hive 3 was transferred from a bulging nuc last week

 

[oliver90owner]

Sorry, but words like viable are clearly defined. Just goggle for the meaning.

Your dates are very haphazard. I suggest you draw some time lines and you will see what I mean. Early May is not mid-May in my book. Your knowlege of the life cyclec of a queen bee appears demonstrably lacking, yet this is one of the basics of beekeeping, particularly at this time of the year - the swarming season.

Just look at these three sentences. It swarmed early may. A queen emerged last Saturday. No sign of eggs yet.

Let's analyse, starting at the back end.

Would you really expect to see eggs in a colony where the queen emerged just five days ago? I Don't think so.

Last Saturday was the 24th of the month? It was on my calendar. How long does a queen cell pupate? Eight days? When would that mean the cell was capped? 24-8 = 16, so the 16th of May. When does the colony swarm? So possibly the 16th but likely the 17th? Well certainly not what I, nor almost anyone else, would consider as 'early May'.

Sorry, but dates just do not compute. Which are we to believe, if any of them? The only other possible explanation is that 'last' in your vocabulary does not, in fact mean that, but something entirely different to mine.

 

[stenibee]

oliver90 why don't you you give some constructive advice instead of all the sarcastic remarks. if you are a experienced beekeeper would it not be in all our interest to share your knowledge

 

[Itchy]

oliver90 why don't you you give some constructive advice instead of all the sarcastic remarks. if you are a experienced beekeeper would it not be in all our interest to share your knowledge

I though it was a constructive and though provoking post. Facts rule.

 

[richardbees]

beenovice,
Is the brood in a concentrated pattern across adj frames as normal - or scattered haphazard around several frames(s)?

Both look wrong but need different remedies
rich

 

[beesleybees]

Sorry, but words like viable are clearly defined. Just goggle for the meaning.

Oliver90, are you always this abrupt or have you got out the wrong side of the bed this morning. If yer can't be nice, maybe it's best not to say anything at all

Everyday is a learning day

 

[beenovice]

Sorry, but words like viable are clearly defined. Just goggle for the meaning.

Your dates are very haphazard. I suggest you draw some time lines and you will see what I mean. Early May is not mid-May in my book. Your knowlege of the life cyclec of a queen bee appears demonstrably lacking, yet this is one of the basics of beekeeping, particularly at this time of the year - the swarming season.

Just look at these three sentences. It swarmed early may. A queen emerged last Saturday. No sign of eggs yet.

Let's analyse, starting at the back end.

Would you really expect to see eggs in a colony where the queen emerged just five days ago? I Don't think so.

Last Saturday was the 24th of the month? It was on my calendar. How long does a queen cell pupate? Eight days? When would that mean the cell was capped? 24-8 = 16, so the 16th of May. When does the colony swarm? So possibly the 16th but likely the 17th? Well certainly not what I, nor almost anyone else, would consider as 'early May'.

Sorry, but dates just do not compute. Which are we to believe, if any of them? The only other possible explanation is that 'last' in your vocabulary does not, in fact mean that, but something entirely different to mine.

Ok so when I say last Saturday, I mean saturday 17th. I've been away last week, and lost a week somewhere. Sorry for the confusion. Swarm was on the 2nd may.
And I still don't know what you mean by viable.

 

[beenovice]

Oliver90, are you always this abrupt or have you got out the wrong side of the bed this morning. If yer can't be nice, maybe it's best not to say anything at all

Everyday is a learning day

No, I think it is just me he has a problem with. You only have to look at his replies to everyone else to see they are far more civil.
I think he is on a mission to ridicule everything I post.

 

[beenovice]

beenovice,
Is the brood in a concentrated pattern across adj frames as normal - or scattered haphazard around several frames(s)?

Both look wrong but need different remedies
rich

The pattern is haphazard across several frames.

 

[beenovice]

Sorry, but words like viable are clearly defined. Just goggle for the meaning.

Your dates are very haphazard. I suggest you draw some time lines and you will see what I mean. Early May is not mid-May in my book. Your knowlege of the life cyclec of a queen bee appears demonstrably lacking, yet this is one of the basics of beekeeping, particularly at this time of the year - the swarming season.

Just look at these three sentences. It swarmed early may. A queen emerged last Saturday. No sign of eggs yet.

Let's analyse, starting at the back end.

Would you really expect to see eggs in a colony where the queen emerged just five days ago? I Don't think so.

Last Saturday was the 24th of the month? It was on my calendar. How long does a queen cell pupate? Eight days? When would that mean the cell was capped? 24-8 = 16, so the 16th of May. When does the colony swarm? So possibly the 16th but likely the 17th? Well certainly not what I, nor almost anyone else, would consider as 'early May'.

Sorry, but dates just do not compute. Which are we to believe, if any of them? The only other possible explanation is that 'last' in your vocabulary does not, in fact mean that, but something entirely different to mine.

RAB, this is not the colony in question. I only mention it because you asked me to. My problem of Drone brood is in a hive that I have introduced a queen. She was introduced on the 20th and cage unclipped on the 21st.

 

[BeeJayBee]

My problem of Drone brood is in a hive that I have introduced a queen. She was introduced on the 20th and cage unclipped on the 21st.

How do you know it's drone brood if it hasn't been capped?

 

[richardbees]

beenovice

Looks like you've got a laying worker, also if it was a dlq she wouldn't have coexisted with your new green Q.

I'd suggest you lift the broodbox from the floor and move e.g. 8 ft away Put an empty bb on the floor then transfer the broodless outer frames after shaking off all the bees and fill the centre gap with foundation.

The aim is to isolate the laying worker(s) with the non=flying bees in the the original bb. Now brush all the bees from the frames with brood (and from inner walls of the bb) onto the ground. Strip/and bin the brood comb from the frames and replace with foundation. Finally, after 30 mins, tip the new Q back onto the frames in the new bb and close with crownboard/ roof

The non flying bees will either find their way back to the new bb (or not) but most importantly the laying worker(s) won't be allowed back in.

good luck....and it does work!

Richard

 

[beenovice]

How do you know it's drone brood if it hasn't been capped?

Hi bee joyful, some of the brood is capped, and it is showing as drone. I don't think this is off the new queen as there wouldn't have been time for any capping. Her cage clip was removed 8 days ago. Give her maybe a day to be released, so say 7 days. Capping is not commenced until day 9 I believe.

 

[oliver90owner]

this is not the colony in question

I knew that, but as an indicative example of inaccuracy it shines like a beacon. If that is typical, then how can we be expected to swallow all the other 'supposed' bonafide details? 'Hook line and sinker'comes to mind. Sorry.

 

[beenovice]

this is not the colony in question

I knew that, but as an indicative example of inaccuracy it shines like a beacon. If that is typical, then how can we be expected to swallow all the other 'supposed' bonafide details? 'Hook line and sinker'comes to mind. Sorry.

I'm not asking you to swallow anything. You make it sound like I am trying to trick you. All this because I said "last" Saturday, which by the way, many would argue is correct. Saturday is Saturday! Last Saturday is the one before.
If it is too much trouble to give out advice, then please don't bother. There are many on here who manage to help. Your help would be very appreciated if indeed it was "help".
If on the other hand you just enjoy dishing out the ridicule in some twisted form of sarcasm, then go for it. Knowledge, age and wisdom are power for some people, and I understand if you don't want to give knowledge and wisdom away as all you are left with is age! I understand if this is the case, so please say if it is.

 

[RosieMc]

I so hope you do not have a drone laying worker, or even drone laying workers

 

[sharonh]

I have a hive that has been suspected queenless for about 4 weeks. No sign of any eggs or new brood.
9 days ago, I introduced a new buck fast queen. The cage clip was removed 8 days ago. I have looked today and the new queen is fine and well. However there is considerable capped and uncapped messy drone brood. It is very sporadic and no real evidence of worker brood.
As some of it is capped, I doubt it is from the new queen ( clip removed 8 days ago)
My question is what to do? I have other nucs and hives that could do with being combined if that is an option.

Hi beenovice,
If drone brood there and capped, it's most likely not from your new queen. If she's still there, I would give her a chance. She won't start laying until all brood from a previous queen is hatched.
I would recommend removing the ruined frames & replacing them.
If the queen is fine, this should suppress workers from laying.
Introducing a new queen into a laying workers hive, they would normally kill her. If she's ok and alive, then I would not think it was laying workers.
You would have had to get rid of the laying workers before introducing a queen in the case of laying workers.



Love Beekeeping <3