Supercedure Question

[IndigoPearl]

Maybe I'm just not remembering.. I recall learning that when multiple queen cells are present and capped, the first queen to emerge will find the other cells and kill off the potential queens - sting through the side. What happens in a supercedure to allow the new queen to emerge unscathed? Does the failing queen recognize the supercedure and allow it for the good of the hive? Or is it best for me to remove her prior to the new queen emerging?
My girls have a supercedure queen cell capped (thank goodness, because I've lost my patience with the current queen and was considering replacing her anyway).. and I want to make sure the new queen is successful. Made me realize I've forgotten what happens to the old queen and why she's willing to be replaced/allow the new queen cell to continue. Can someone explain?


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[Anduril]

The bees sense there is something wrong with their queen, (damaged antenna, leg, etc) Supersedure cells are made and the 2 queens live side by side for a time. If you remove the cells the bees will make more.

 

[IndigoPearl]

The bees sense there is something wrong with their queen, (damaged antenna, leg, etc) Supersedure cells are made and the 2 queens live side by side for a time. If you remove the cells the bees will make more.

I understand the concept of supercedure, but I'm curious about the original queen's acceptance of it happening. My original post asks my specific questions. Thanks for your time.


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[colinc]

Someone posted a photo 1-2 weeks ago, two queens on same frame. I have one hive considering superseding their queen too.


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[colinc]

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[jenkinsbrynmair]

The workers ensure that the Queen can't get at the QC. That's why you often see supersedure cells at the very edge of the brood nest - where the old queen doesn't often go.
People seem to forget that it's the workers that control the Queen not vice versa

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[Anduril]

I understand the concept of supercedure, but I'm curious about the original queen's acceptance of it happening. My original post asks my specific questions. Thanks for your time

The bees

I answered your specific questions! The queen is just an egg laying machine.

 

[Zante]

I think you're humanising the bees a bit, giving the queen a will of her own. She works for the hive, like all the other bees do, without self awareness, doing her job.

 

[Nige.Coll]

She isn't a queen as such, she's the mother if you want to humanise it.

She is an egg laying machine that smells. Food in = eggs out.
The only decision she makes is do I fertilise this or not.


edit
16 days something has to be sacrificed, they are dumb as a brick.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

She isn't a queen as such, she's the mother if you want to humanise it.

She is an egg laying machine that smells. Food in = eggs out.
The only decision she makes is do I fertilise this or not.


edit
16 days something has to be sacrificed, they are dumb as a brick.

I love your edit.

 

[masterBK]

Queens are also killing machines programmed to detect and track down the presence of other queens communicating with them by piping

 

[Bosleeu]

I am not sure how it works but these two queens were literally brushing past each other on the frame and totally ignoring one another. No sign of either being a killing machine, although I have seen virgin queens fighting very vigorously when I got my timings wrong on a few grafted queencells once. The marked queen is one of my all time favourites. Never tried to swarm in three years and was "retired" to a nuc a few weeks ago. She is old and slow now so I think she is just being peacefully replaced due to that.

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[Bosleeu]

The above post refers to the picture of the two queens in the picture I posted. There appeared to be no animosity between them they walked into each other then just went their separate ways. The old queen is still laying fairly well too. Just walking very slowly and seems to be resting a lot. I put her in the nuc so that she doesn't have so many frames to cover, although not sure if it works that way.

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[colinc]

From what I have been lead to understand with supercedure either the workers do away with the original queen or the 2 co-habit. The virgin will remove other queen cells but not the original queen. 2 queen hives can go on into winter but it is unlikely the original queen ever makes it through the winter. Sure one of the forum experts will correct this though......,


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[Swarm]

I was shown a photo of four queens on a comb. This beekeeper also had colonies with two queens present, on their second year.

 

[colinc]

There you go. This is why I joined the forum. Learn something new all the time.


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[Briarfield]

She is an egg laying machine that smells. Food in = eggs out.
The only decision she makes is do I fertilise this or not.

I don't even think that decision is hers as it depends on the cells that have been built for her. Wider means unfertilised, I suppose she could put a worker in, what would the bees do with it?



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[Gilberdyke John]

Queens are also killing machines programmed to detect and track down the presence of other queens communicating with them by piping

Something along the lines of two tomcats on the garden outside the bedroom window at three am telling each other what they intend to be the others fate prior to the actual fighting beginning?

 

[JWF]

Something along the lines of two tomcats on the garden outside the bedroom window at three am telling each other what they intend to be the others fate prior to the actual fighting beginning?

My opinion is that piping isn't always intended to have fatal consequences, as it is also an indication that there is another viable queen present and a caste swarm will therefore not leave the hive hopelessly queenless.

This wouldn't apply, of course, during supersedure.