Super under or over brood box for winter?

[Do224]

hole in crown board, invert sandwich container over said hole, you get the picture?

Do you reckon that’s about a kilo of fondant in the sandwich container? How often do you need to check it and refill?

 

[user 20297]

Do you reckon that’s about a kilo of fondant in the sandwich container? How often do you need to check it and refill?

If you use something such as a translucent ex-ice cream container you can roughly gauge the weight of fondant from the packaged weight of the product. I've found it's useful because you can see the dark silhouhettes of the bees as they demolish the fondant. Maybe because my colonies aren't huge, they seem to work through a kilogram of fondant at a more steady pace than they slurp syrup. I'll probably be shown to be wrong, but I feel less concerned when they have an ad-hoc supply of sugar in this form that they will simply fill the nest with stores. But that is a good point made earlier by @oliver90owner to say that they may choose to take the fondant rather than work through their stores.

PS There's going to be so many variables in fondant uptake that it's hard to say how long for a kilogram. I check progress about once a week and refill about every two....but that's a tiny container.

 

[HarryO]

Two reasons why the bees are no longer interested in a liqid feed.
1) The available space is full, or
2) It is now too cold for them to continue.

If they have more than sufficient stores and take fondant (because it is handy) your feeding will have been a waste of time - your autumn feed will still be there next spring, there may well be limited space for spring brooding and any honey collected later may be mixed with plain sugar syrup.

The beekeeper should have a good idea of the state of their colonies regarding stores, particularly after 4 years, or more.

Thank you for your analysis, useful to be reminded of the reasons they are not taking feed.

The reason I am not aware of the feed state of the colony feed is because I have been in hospital and then recuperating and unable to lift. My inexperienced brother was doing caretaker duties for me.

I know I can weigh the hives to get a rough idea of amount of feed each colony has.

My question was more concerned with whether any fondant should be put on top of the super or between the super and and brood box. My question may not have been clear enough, it was more about the positioning of the fondant ( on top of super too far away from cluster). I suppose it may be a question of personal choice.

I could make my own decision but thought having some input from this forum community would be reassuring and possibly assist other inexperienced beekeepers.

To qualify as an "inexperienced practitioner " in many professions can take 5 years, 7 years and in some professions 10 years. (See doctors, vets, teachers, engineers, etc. etc.) Some beekeepers with 50 years experience of beekeeping will tell you they still do not know everything about beekeeping especially in the ever evolving and changing beekeeping world.

Once again thank you for taking the time to give me your input.

Please do not reply to this post as I do not want supercilious answers with a barb in the tail in my life. I find it ruins the positive mood of the day.

Enjoy your day.
Thank you

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My question was more concerned with whether any fondant should be put on top of the super or between the super and and brood box. My question may not have been clear enough, it was more about the positioning of the fondant ( on top of super too far away from cluster). I suppose it may be a question of personal choice.

Bees feed from the bottom up, so by the time that they need the fondant the bees will have eaten through the stores in the brood chamber and the shallow on top so should be clustered just underneath the crown board - so the fondant, in a tub over the feed hole, will be conveniently near.

I feel less concerned when they have an ad-hoc supply of sugar in this form that they will simply fill the nest with stores.

Bees will store fondant just as readily as syrup - given the right conditions
In the autumn or balmy spring when they are able to fly to get water, they will dilute the fondant down to sugar syrup consistency and store it as 'honey' (when people are convinced that bees store fondant 'as is' packed into cells, what they are actually seeing is white mould on pollen)
I have witnessed bees, in the autumn, in a hive virtually devoid of stores, take the best part of a 12.5 kilo slab of fondant in less than a month, when subsequently hefted, the hive was nailed down and didn't require any supplementary feeding at all during the winter or early spring
In the midst of winter when bees are clustered and reluctant to fly they will just use the condensation present in each and every hive to dilute the fondant just enough to eat, therefore use it as a ready food supply rather than store it.

 

[HarryO]

Bees feed from the bottom up, so by the time that they need the fondant the bees will have eaten through the stores in the brood chamber and the shallow on top so should be clustered just underneath the crown board - so the fondant, in a tub over the feed hole, will be conveniently near.

Bees will store fondant just as readily as syrup - given the right conditions
In the autumn or balmy spring when they are able to fly to get water, they will dilute the fondant down to sugar syrup consistency and store it as 'honey' (when people are convinced that bees store fondant 'as is' packed into cells, what they are actually seeing is white mould on pollen)
I have witnessed bees, in the autumn, in a hive virtually devoid of stores, take the best part of a 12.5 kilo slab of fondant in less than a month, when subsequently hefted, the hive was nailed down and didn't require any supplementary feeding at all during the winter or early spring
In the midst of winter when bees are clustered and reluctant to fly they will just use the condensation present in each and every hive to dilute the fondant just enough to eat, therefore use it as a ready food supply rather than store it.

Thank you very much for your helpful and informative and reply.

diolch yn fawr am yr ateb hwnnw (hope this is ok I cheated and used a translator. I know from sad experiences that they can be rubbish and misleading. )

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

diolch yn fawr am yr ateb hwnnw (hope this is ok I cheated and used a translator. I know from sad experiences that they can be rubbish and misleading. )

Pleser I rhoi cyngor.
Translation wasn't too bad, the Hwnnw at the end was superfluous but you'd need to know the subtle nuances of the phrase to know that - and Google translate doesn't do subtle! believe you me, when asked to check and confirm 'home made' translations (usually for onward dissemination to the general public, or cabinet members) at work, my team have been left either speechless or in tears of laughter at some offerings!

 

[HarryO]

As with most questions in beekeeping there is rarely only one correct option - except for the tablet of stone: if you're overwintering on BB and a shallow you must remove the queen excluder, otherwise the bees may follow the stores and leave the queen behind, starving and cold.
Your question partly depends on how many bees there are in the colony. If there are bees ++ in the super then probably OK to put the fondant above the hole in the CB. If few bees in the super they may not reach the fondant through the hole, so best to place a slab of fondant directly on the frames across the width of the hive.
Pundits on the forum advise regular hefting - see numerous posts. Unfortunately this is subjective and despite 49 years of beekeeping I became complacent last winter = wishful thinking** that my hives were heavy and I lost two colonies due to starvation. Now I'm weighing fortnightly.
** or it could be that with muscle wasting commensurate with the passage of time that what felt light 40 years ago now feels heavy......?

Edit: I warm the fondant before placing. I guess that 2.5kg of near-freezing fondant must chill the colony.

Thank you for your knowledgeable input. QX's are removed and I can weigh the hives using luggage scales (the ones with a hook, like a spring balance). One of hives has a Perspex crown board (unfortunately only one hive) so can have swift look at number of bees. And ask my brother that has been caretaking, them whilst I was indisposed, about the others, ( but he has very little BKer experience so will have to "interrogate" him closely/ carefully!!)

I will probably warm the fondant, as you suggest, it seems a logical/practical suggestion.

Once again thank you.

 

[HarryO]

Pleser I rhoi cyngor.
Translation wasn't too bad, the Hwnnw at the end was superfluous but you'd need to know the subtle nuances of the phrase to know that - and Google translate doesn't do subtle! believe you me, when asked to check and confirm 'home made' translations (usually for onward dissemination to the general public, or cabinet members) at work, my team have been left either speechless or in tears of laughter at some offerings!

Pleser o dderbyn eich cyngor. That's all folks.