Strange happenings after a swarm

[beeno]

Hi Michael,
Don't feel bad Michael. The good thing about being on a forum or a member of an association is that you realise that there is not one mistake that you can make that has not been made odles of times before! We all take it in turn and it is a very steep learning curve - vertical. I would really like Finman's take on this, as he is always the one to say reunite, albeit not quite in these circumstances.

 

[MMJ100]

beano,
Thanks a million. you make me feel better.

Am more positive this evening and will do what ever I can
some one asked today " can I be sure I got all the QCs?" the answer has to be no!

any way I will be working and reading all I can.

 

[beeno]

beano,
Thanks a million. you make me feel better.

Am more positive this evening and will do what ever I can
some one asked today " can I be sure I got all the QCs?" the answer has to be no!

any way I will be working and reading all I can.

Hi again Michael,
Just to make sure you got it as you are going through a stressful time as a beek. If there is one or two queen cells that you did miss (you have to check again) then you leave them so that the bees can re-queen themselves.

 

[MMJ100]

Beano,
Thanks, yes I got it. After yesterdays activity/chat I have been hoping I have missed one. I will certainly leave it/them now.

I was not planning on going in to that hive again for a while. Thought it better to leave them alone. This morning I twice counted 7/8 pollen arrivals in 10 seconds, and a lot of purposeful flying.
The first swarm seems to be flying with a purpose. The little Nuc (yesterday's Cast) is still in the nuc and flying a bit this morning.

So lets hope I did not do a 100% job, and a queen can appear.

Thank you and all the others for being so helpful even if I did not manage to follow everything to the letter.

Mortified Michael

 

[beeno]

Beano,
Thanks, yes I got it. After yesterdays activity/chat I have been hoping I have missed one. I will certainly leave it/them now.

I was not planning on going in to that hive again for a while. Thought it better to leave them alone. This morning I twice counted 7/8 pollen arrivals in 10 seconds, and a lot of purposeful flying.
The first swarm seems to be flying with a purpose. The little Nuc (yesterday's Cast) is still in the nuc and flying a bit this morning.

So lets hope I did not do a 100% job, and a queen can appear.

Thank you and all the others for being so helpful even if I did not manage to follow everything to the letter.

Mortified Michael

Hi Michael,
No worries. Don't beat yourself up. It sounds promissing about all the pollen going in, so perhaps you have got virgin/s in there. Leave for three weeks then, before you check for eggs. In the meantime keep an eye out for more casts though. Lots and lots of luck.

 

[MMJ100]

Beano thanks,

Just one question for today for confirmation. I thought I read some where that I should leave (the main hive) for three weeks to await virgin queen etc. But I can't find where I read it.

So you are now suggesting no inspection at all for three weeks assuming a normal pollen etc activity?

Michael

 

[itma]

I captured another swarm and hived it.

If this is another small cast, it suggests that you may have missed more than one on your last Queen Cell eradication.

Apart from using up lots of spare equipment, one good angle is that it would indicate that the source hive may well have a virgin queen despite everything!
Once it stops issuing casts (dependant on how many queen cells were left) then you should indeed leave it well alone for three weeks (some might suggest longer), to allow time for the new queen to mature, get mated and start laying such that that can be spotted.
Same goes for the little cast swarms, apart from FEED. And it would be good to feed the original swarm too, as that is the only known-functional queen that you have there - for the moment!
There should be no need to feed the source colony.

The various swarms would likely benefit from the protection of a much-reduced entrance to prevent robbing and minimise the number of bees needed for guard duty.

 

[beeno]

Beano thanks,

Just one question for today for confirmation. I thought I read some where that I should leave (the main hive) for three weeks to await virgin queen etc. But I can't find where I read it.

So you are now suggesting no inspection at all for three weeks assuming a normal pollen etc activity?

Michael

Hi Michael,
Sorry for late reply thought we were done and dusted. Based on your assumptions that you may well have missed a queen cell, purposeful foraging with lots of pollen going in, as you stated in previous post, and no further cast swarms yes leave the main hive on its own for three weeks to give virgin chance to mate. If you get any further cast swarms then we have to reassess. At the last count your were in possession of main hive (hopefully not queenless), one prime swarm of correct size, and one cast swarm which issued 9 days after the prime swarm, this one will also have to be left for three weeks to mate. You should check your prime swarm (not main hive) for eggs though if 14 days have passed.

 

[MMJ100]

Thanks for your confirmation.
All you say is correct and as it actually is.

However today I was going to go into the prime swarm, as you suggest.
Before I could there was a cast swarm appeared. I captured it straight into a nuc.

I was unable to get into the prime swarm. If all is calm I will do this tomorrow (Friday)
I think, because of this I should also look into the main hive to follow remedy from the FERA welsh assembly paper that Itma sent earlier in the thread.

Thank you so much for your reply and for your generous help.

As an asside: In my garden my one (subject) hive has small fruit trees to land on and it is relatively easy to capture swarms. Whereas my other 6 hives are 16 kms away and at a much highter altidude. Spring is about two weeks later there and all hives have supers on (now) (2 over wintered with supers) and ALL are building out in the supers and show no sign of swarming. I now feel my problem came about because the weather up until first swarm day had been quite cold (11 deg max) and mostly rainy for two or more weeks. I did not look into the hive because of that even though when it was not raining pollen was going in at a fast rate. I feel that I SHOULD have looked in as if I had I would have added a super. I wonder if you this that this is correct.

Again thank you so much
Michael

 

[beeno]

Hi Michael,
Still lots of work to be done at home. Hopefully, the old queen in your prime swarm will be laying, so that will be one down (report back). The main hive will have just virgins in it now as all the QC will have emerged. How many no one knows and they will be impossible to find. Fingers crossed that you just had your last cast swarm, but who knows. The problem with all the cast swarms will be; are they viable in size first of all and will they get mated? Indeed, will the one (hopefully) remaining in the main hive get mated? You are probably at point 10 of 'Itma's leaflet'.
The mountain bees, I take it that you have inspect the brood boxes for queen cells, the amount of room left for the queen to lay and the amount of bees in the brood. So, that you can make a judgement and take action otherwise you will have 6 x the same scenario in the mountains! The whole of the UK was in the same position as you last year - should have inspected despite the weather! There are moments of serenity in beekeeping, but not many. Hang tough!

 

[MMJ100]

Itma,
Thank you very much. reading carefull and trying to do what you suggest.
I appreciate you time
Michael

 

[MMJ100]

Beano,
Thank you so much.
I am feeling a lot better now. I am reasonable happy that it is piecing together a bit.
Must go and see what is happening as there is rain and thunder threatened for late this afternoon. I will report later. That will be my quiet time.

 

[MMJ100]

I have just gone into the prime swarm. It was full to 5 frames. I saw capped stores and a lot of built out too and uncapped liquid. But the big thing was that I saw a whole frame (both sides) full of light yellow capped brood. Wow was I pleased!

I fed this colony and I also fed the two nucs (cast swarms)

I am inclined- reading both your posts and seeing a lot of pollen entering - to leave the main hive well alone now.

Also it is going to rain for several days starting to night, and possible thunder this evening.

Thank you so much both of you. I hope seeing how many people read this thread that others can learn as I am learning, Thanks to you two.

Michael

 

[beeno]

I have just gone into the prime swarm. It was full to 5 frames. I saw capped stores and a lot of built out too and uncapped liquid. But the big thing was that I saw a whole frame (both sides) full of light yellow capped brood. Wow was I pleased!

I fed this colony and I also fed the two nucs (cast swarms)

I am inclined- reading both your posts and seeing a lot of pollen entering - to leave the main hive well alone now.

Also it is going to rain for several days starting to night, and possible thunder this evening.

Thank you so much both of you. I hope seeing how many people read this thread that others can learn as I am learning, Thanks to you two.

Michael

Hi Again,
That is good news. Do not overfeed the prime swarm now. I don't know what your flow is, but there must always be some empty space for HM to lay otherwise they will want to swarm again.
Remember the date of the last cast now both from the point of view of getting it mated and the main hive mated. Important point is that the main hive has not as yet experienced queenlessness, because of the virgins although it will of course not have had any brood for a long time. Time is ticking for the virgins to get mated. Do your fellow beeks in France have any drones in their hives? I hope so. Shame about the rain. One down three to go!

 

[MMJ100]

Beano,
I just gave a little food to the prime swarm. on the basia that better a little than none.

The flow on the primary swarm was 3/4 on 10 but on the main hive it was 5/6 today (all in 10 secs. There is plenty of room for HM to lay in the prime swarm.

yes the main hive needs to mate - assuming that there is a virgin queen there. I do not know about local beeks a - usually I hear afterwards. There were a lot of drone cells at the begginning of this and I have seen drones coming and going (I think).

The clouds are building and I can feel and see thunder on the way. That is sad but as usual i will look to the various forecasts and hope that there is some clear time in the afternoon.

Any way I am a lot hapier. I may not be the most experienced but I am doing my best for my babies. Lets hope that the weather allows a mating.

They all look fairly relaxed and purposeful although I can't approach as always after a swarm there are straglers (I think) who chase me away.

Thanks so much

Michael

 

[beeno]

Hi Michael,
Things seems to be as good as they can be at this moment in time. When us beeks (sorry I am only a newbie) talk about flow we mean nectar flow. Usually the more experienced beeks in an area will tell you 'there is a flow on' when they have stopped feeding and the supers are filling! I take it you are talking pollen and that's a good rate!
You had lots of drones prior to the swarm that is good and seeing drones coming and going often means that there is a virgin about so that is good too. I would inspect both casts and main hive in three weeks time for brood. You got two apiaries now no less! Fingers crossed!

 

[MMJ100]

Beano,
Yes I think things have at least become settled.
I can't believe you are a newbie, I suspect you are being rather modest.
As to the flow I was talking about -I was counting pollen entries. One can count that from the outside as we can see the pollen in their legs. I would say as a rough estimated that for every pollen entry that I am counting there are four other (assuming nectar etc) bees arriving.

I will wait and see in three weeks.

Yes I am up to a total of 10 hivesin two locations. I hope to move a couple out as I do not want too many in my garden and I am arranging to use a new friend's place as he gets into beeing a beek for the first time.

Thank you for everything - I am sure I have learned quite a lot and hopefully will be a better beek as a result

Michael

 

[beeno]

Hi Michael,
Thank you for the compliment Michael, but I am a newbie and I suspect one remains one for a fairly long time. As for the question of what the bees are carrying who are not adorned with pollen, well that is the question. Since you are feeding fondant most of it could be water which they use to dilute it and any honey they have and it is a lot of water going into my hives at the moment. It would be good to have a water source at ground level approx. 10m from the hive.
Great that you are getting a bee keeping friend nearby. Always useful to have a spare set of eyes and hands especially when it comes to finding and marking queens. You will also be a great help to him of course as you have done your 'baptism of fire' when it comes to swarming!
In the meantime do look out for more casts though. Hope not, but one never knows. Lots of luck.

 

[Erichalfbee]

As an aside re non pollen carrying bees at this time of year.
Willow does provide nectar.
I'm sure somebody will be along soon to provide data re temperatures though.

 

[Cazza]

As an aside re non pollen carrying bees at this time of year.
Willow does provide nectar.
I'm sure somebody will be along soon to provide data re temperatures though.

I wish someone would. I have not been able to find this out.
Cazza