stores in super

[rje66]

Did an AS and was wondering will the bees now start to use up the honey in the super Or will they bring in enough from forage. . New BB is mostly foundation. Just curious as in my second year and it's the first bit of honey I 've had in the super, friends and family are getting impatient

 

[enrico]

Did an AS and was wondering will the bees now start to use up the honey in the super Or will they bring in enough from forage. . New BB is mostly foundation. Just curious as in my second year and it's the first bit of honey I 've had in the super, friends and family are getting impatient

The super should be over the old queen on original site. Depends on how much nectar is available as to wether they need to use any stores but it is still early so honey may still be an option! Experience will help you get strong hives for your main nectar flows.
E

 

[rje66]

Thanks.
Yes super is over Q on old site.weather is warm and plenty of forage out there.just got it into my head that they would use up super honey to draw out foundation rather than fly and forage

 

[dexter's shed]

when doing an A/S, thought the queen was moved to a new position ?

 

[Davelin]

when doing an A/S, thought the queen was moved to a new position ?

Better go and read the book again then!

 

[enrico]

Old queen old position new frames
New queen new position old frames
Think about it, the old queen wants the flyers, where will they go? The old site. Easy mistake though!
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

when doing an A/S, thought the queen was moved to a new position ?

Better go and read the book again then!

Surely there must be a video of it somewhere on yootoob

 

[Tremyfro]

Old queen old position new frames
New queen new position old frames
Think about it, the old queen wants the flyers, where will they go? The old site. Easy mistake though!
E

I understand this....but what is it called when the Queen is moved away with brood......and a brood box is left on old site with the flyers. What kind of manipulation would that be?.....

 

[rickyd20]

Why exactly should the honey supers be in the old position? Is this purely for feed when drawing out the new foundations?

 

[Obee1]

I've always wondered why the bees think they have swarmed when the queen is still in the original position. Sure the house has new furnishings and the kids have left home but mama and the workers bees haven't moved. Wouldn't a better simulation of a swarm be to take queen and fliers more than 3 miles away and give foundation. Brood and nurse bees stay on original site.
Or am I missing something simple. I usually am!

 

[Eyeman]

but what is it called when the Queen is moved away with brood......and a brood box is left on old site with the flyers

Some sneaky bu**er's nicked your hive and left you with an empty box!

This method has been promoted by Wally Shaw and termed Snelgrove II. The Old queen is returned to the old site approx 1 weeks later.
See more details here:
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

Alec

 

[Tremyfro]

Some sneaky bu**er's nicked your hive and left you with an empty box!

This method has been promoted by Wally Shaw and termed Snelgrove II. The Old queen is returned to the old site approx 1 weeks later.
See more details here:
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

Alec

Ha ha.....tee Hee...so it would!
So what I described would just be a split?
I have yet to try any of the swarm control methods....other than that I did some pre-emptive manipulations with comb and adding second Brood boxes on two colonies and my big colony was split into nucs for increase. I have read Wally Shaws booklets....they are a great help....I downloaded them but I was also sent them by the WBA. Which was a lovely surprise.

 

[Davelin]

Why exactly should the honey supers be in the old position? Is this purely for feed when drawing out the new foundations?

The older foraging bees will return to this site; so if there is a flow on they will continue to fill the supers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why exactly should the honey supers be in the old position? Is this purely for feed when drawing out the new foundations?

No - once the bees have drawn out some of the frames they won't have much else to do as there won't be much brood to cover, therefore they will go into foraging overdrive, also, the Q+ colony will be your main production hive from thereon thus will need the supers.

I understand this....but what is it called when the Queen is moved away with brood......and a brood box is left on old site with the flyers. What kind of manipulation would that be?.....

A nuced queen A/S

 

[Tremyfro]

No - once the bees have drawn out some of the frames they won't have much else to do as there won't be much brood to cover, therefore they will go into foraging overdrive, also, the Q+ colony will be your main production hive from thereon thus will need the supers.




A nuced queen A/S

I don't think I was clear in my description.
I meant what would you call it when you have a colony with two broodboxes...both with brood. You take the Queen with one broodbox and move it away....and the second broodbox stays on the original site with the flyers and makes a new queen? Is that a split or does it have another name? Is it a swarm control?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The same - it's just you've taken a larger amount of frames and brood away than you would with a nuc

 

[enrico]

Actually we cannot really mimic a real swarm. A selection of bees of all ages leave in a real swarm. What we are doing is manipulating the bees in an attempt to quell swarming instinct and still keep the maximum amount of bees for honey production. It is a bit of give and take on all our parts. We could move them three miles away but......we are also trying to be economic with space and petrol. The system that most people use of old queen, old site, new frames appears to be best but as those who have had a swarm despite this manipulation you will know it is far from fool proof. You could just let them swarm and keep what is left but the bees are what make your honey. It all boils down to why you want to keep bees. If you want honey then the tried and tested methods keep the most bees, produce the most honey and use space and equipment in the easiest way...but.... The final decision is always yours!
E

 

[rickyd20]

No - once the bees have drawn out some of the frames they won't have much else to do as there won't be much brood to cover, therefore they will go into foraging overdrive, also, the Q+ colony will be your main production hive from thereon thus will need the supers.

This doesn't really make sense to me. Surely there is more to do in the new Q+ hive, since they have to build from scratch, then start tending to brood when the queen starts.
I would have thought there was less to do in the Q- hive, since all they have to do is look after the emerging brood and wait for the virgin to start laying. I'm estimating around a 2 week period of no brood, since its around 8-10 days for the virgin to emerge, then another 2-3 weeks for her to start laying.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I understand this....but what is it called when the Queen is moved away with brood......and a brood box is left on old site with the flyers. What kind of manipulation would that be?.....

It's still swarm control via AS. Different names that's all. Some of us have tried that one, eventually repatriating the queen but you can leave her in the nuc.The usual one folk talk about is a Pagden, old queen new frames old site.

 

[Tremyfro]

It's still swarm control via AS. Different names that's all. Some of us have tried that one, eventually repatriating the queen but you can leave her in the nuc.The usual one folk talk about is a Pagden, old queen new frames old site.

Thank you and to JBM....I was interested....there are so many names of the different manipulations. I haven't done any of them yet as my colonies have settled for frame manipulations and extra brood space...but it is always good to learn about different methods. I have read a lot of posts about AS this spring. It's good to keep up with what everyone's doing and what seems the most successful.