Still worried about varroa

[Skyhook]

Sorry if I'm worrying too much, but as a new father (of bees) I think that may be better than not worrying enough.

The apiguard is now into it's 5th week, and daily drop has been 80-100 most of that time. Yesterday was 120 so I'm hoping it may be reaching a tipping point; but if it continues, I'm wondering about using apivar as well. I know there's a lot of resistance- but even if they have partial resistance, I'm hoping the combined effect may be enough to tip the mite population over the edge. I'm thinking that as they're different materials working in different ways, there shouldn't be an issue with overdosing.

Has anyone ever tried this, or does anyone have any more technical knowledge?

 

[BKF Admin]

I would of said a while back to wait until xmas and give them a trickle of Oxalic Acid but the jury seems to be out on the effect it is having on bees.

I will have to run a poll soon to see how many members are going to treat with OA this year..

 

[Rosti]

Sorry if I'm worrying too much, but as a new father (of bees) I think that may be better than not worrying enough.

The apiguard is now into it's 5th week, and daily drop has been 80-100 most of that time. Yesterday was 120 so I'm hoping it may be reaching a tipping point; but if it continues, I'm wondering about using apivar as well. I know there's a lot of resistance- but even if they have partial resistance, I'm hoping the combined effect may be enough to tip the mite population over the edge. I'm thinking that as they're different materials working in different ways, there shouldn't be an issue with overdosing.

Has anyone ever tried this, or does anyone have any more technical knowledge?

Not tried apivar, but I am seeing a similar situation to you (after 4 weeks Apiguard). I am seriously considering extending my treatment as well but will probably go with Muswell Metro's thymol patties since I don't want to over load with syrup given I am doing a precautionary Nosema treatment as well (I think I have a minor level in one hive)

 

[MuswellMetro]

Sorry if I'm worrying too much, but as a new father (of bees) I think that may be better than not worrying enough.

The apiguard is now into it's 5th week, and daily drop has been 80-100 most of that time. Yesterday was 120 so I'm hoping it may be reaching a tipping point; but if it continues, I'm wondering about using apivar as well. I know there's a lot of resistance- but even if they have partial resistance, I'm hoping the combined effect may be enough to tip the mite population over the edge. I'm thinking that as they're different materials working in different ways, there shouldn't be an issue with overdosing.

Has anyone ever tried this, or does anyone have any more technical knowledge?

Skyhook i have a very similar problem, most of my hive treated with Acid in the winter have low drops except one swarm hive

Apiquard has dropped 75-80 per day for 4weeks on a Large 14x12 swarm on 10 brood frames with little diminishing over the four week period (2500+ Varroa) .

i have bayvarol and thymol crystal and decided not to use Bayvaraol due to resistance.The Hertfordshire BKA web site thymol patties put on Sunday afternoon have just dropped 210 Monday and 150 Tuesday rather than the apiguard 75

if you use Apistan or Bayvarol then they will probably have some resistance, phone your Seasonal Bee Inspector to see what the resistance is like in your area

Apivar is not easily obtainable and i don't think it is on sale in the UK ( or is it, don't confuse it with Apilife Var) and Apivar has therefore little on no resistance in UK

 

[Eyeman]

Hi Guys
Those of you that are having a continued high mite drop after 4 weeks of apiguard.
Have you been using any other form of mite control during the spring/summer? ie. Spring Apiguard, Drone culling, icing sugar, shook swarm etc
Alec

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi Guys
Those of you that are having a continued high mite drop after 4 weeks of apiguard.
Have you been using any other form of mite control during the spring/summer? ie. Spring Apiguard, Drone culling, icing sugar, shook swarm etc
Alec

yep, i have drone frame always less than 3% except once when 5%, culled every two weeks and did one icing sugar which just made them mad 15 normal weekly drop went to 40 in first day then tailed off http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6201

cant believe how the mites biult up so fast to thousands we must be selectivily breeding varroa by using the omf to have a different habit or bigger claws

my vet won't sell me Apivar unless i can get a FERA inspectorr to say it is necessary

 

[Eyeman]

That's worring MuswellMetro.
Lots of reports around suggesting varroa levels are lighter this year. Mine are definitely low (local strain, dark bee, kept on a single national all year)
I wonder if the less prolific queens (local mongrels) tend to build up less varroa that say the Italians?
Any evidence for this and are your 'prolific'?

 

[Finman]

.
Mites are under brood cappings and mites are reliesed during brood cycle.

 

[MuswellMetro]

That's worring MuswellMetro.
Lots of reports around suggesting varroa levels are lighter this year. Mine are definitely low (local strain, dark bee, kept on a single national all year)
I wonder if the less prolific queens (local mongrels) tend to build up less varroa that say the Italians?
Any evidence for this and are your 'prolific'?

360 in two days is almost petrol time after 4 weeks of apiguard, i have all my hives on one site and worried about drift

i been trying to model the mite survival rate and new varroa coming from the minimul brood in an Xcell spread sheet and it must be high

Thisc swarm came from an area ( hertfordshire) that a few beeks reported possible problems treating with apiguard last year, just wonder!!!!!

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2936&highlight=resistant+varroa

 

[madasafish]

I had a similar situation but in my sixth week mite drop has fallen from 25-30/day in week 5 (hundreds week 1) TO 5-6... (Apiguard) in Hive 1.

I will not continue treatment after this week -

Hive 2 has minmal mite drop...

 

[CB008]

I had/have a very similar situation. I decided to use a third Api after week 4 as teh drop was still so high (must have droped 3,000 in toto). Now I am nearing the end of the sixth week since starting the Api and I am now down to about 15 per day. The hive was not that "happy" about the extra Api but Q still laying nicely.

Mine was a swarm which was obvioulsy riddled. I tried icing sugar first with no real result and then went on to 4 Hiveclean treatments which kept me going until I coud star the Api. I had a real dwv problem where you could see the ejected dwv's crawling around in front of the hive. This is no longer a problem.

I intend to treat with Hiveclean again after I finish the Api in order to assist before acid in December

 

[Skyhook]

I intend to treat with Hiveclean again after I finish the Api in order to assist before acid in December

I'm not familiar with hiveclean, so just looked it up. The main active ingredient seems to be oxalic acid- I thought you weren't supposed to use that more than once per year?

 

[MuswellMetro]

I'm not familiar with hiveclean, so just looked it up. The main active ingredient seems to be oxalic acid- I thought you weren't supposed to use that more than once per year?

very dilute oxalic

some like hiveclean, other don't i don't but that because i am allergic to rhubarb and oxalic acid

 

[BKF Admin]

Whats the % of Oxalic acid in Hiveclean,anyone got a bottle they can look at ?

 

[Queens59]

I have used Apiguard this year, but with poor results (or good, depending how you look at it). The HMI told me I had high levels of varroa in late July and to treat first week in Aug. which I did.

However, altogether over 2 cycles of Apiguard and 1 of Hivemaker's thymol oasis I have easily had less than 500 mites drop in total. Not sure whether to be well pleased or very worried!

 

[Onge]

I have used Apiguard this year, but with poor results (or good, depending how you look at it). The HMI told me I had high levels of varroa in late July and to treat first week in Aug. which I did.

However, altogether over 2 cycles of Apiguard and 1 of Hivemaker's thymol oasis I have easily had less than 500 mites drop in total. Not sure whether to be well pleased or very worried!

You've done the treatment. (maybe a bit overdone) nothing else you can do now.

Don't worry.

He says.

 

[Queens59]

I guess - I just can't get my head round the HMI insisting I had high levels (and scaring the pants off me) and then getting such a low drop...breathe...relax...calm thoughts...

 

[Cazza]

Whats the % of Oxalic acid in Hiveclean,anyone got a bottle they can look at ?

Just looked on the bottle, it lists ingredients but not %'s and I don't have the product info sheet any more, sorry!

I like Hiveclean for swarms and have used it at Xmas too. Works fine.
Cazza

 

[Max]

I have one of my hives dropping 40 to 60 mites after 6 1/2 weeks, then overnight it went down to zero, so keep the faith and keep treating.

This is one advantage for treating in early August, so there is plenty of time to treat then feed up for the winter.

I then used Hiveclean and got a further 20 mites 3 days later, but since then on repeat doses the count was down to just a few.

So hopefully I have got most of the little buggers, but will treat with hiveclean in the spring before the supers go on.

 

[oliver90owner]

I have easily had less than 500 mites drop in total

An Explanation, perhaps.

Yes, but,... and all that.

Mite reproductive cycle increase is about 2 per brood cycle. Fera suggests doubling every 4 weeks, so a bit less.

So since late July they could have quadrupled, perhaps a little less but possibly a lot more (if lots of drone brood).

Depends where you are for action threshold numbers and collapse levels, but it will also depend on colony status as well.

1000 mites is the Fera 'action' level for the UK. Obviously a colony can withstand more mites but the risks of collapse will likely increase exponentially thereafter and reduction of any viral infections will take a longer period for recovery to 'normal' low levels.

So not too difficult to imagine that the SBI is going to err on the side of caution, and that infestation was certainly on the rise. If a small colony, that may well have been one factor the SBI took into account.

Nothing is set in stone with these little critters, which is why things are often so difficult to predict and all the information possible needs to be available, at hand, to make a sensible suggestion for any particular problem.

That is why the more experienced beeks don't get in so much of a tangle with problems - they recognise them earlier and take into account (as in 'monitor') the progression of the problem, not just a mere snap-shot as we often get on the forum, for decision making for the best remedial route to take.

Eventually some of the less experienced beeks will become more experienced and will realise all this as a matter of course. The others may well fall by the way-side after mishap after mishap.

Regards, RAB