Spacing in brood and a half

[Suzi Q]

I put on supers 6 days ago to give more space in the brood boxes on my two hives. (Without queen excluders). On one hive the queen is up and laying in there, which is ok, was thinking of providing brood and a half for that colony anyway. Other frames are filled with nectar. My question is, is it OK for the 'half' to have different spacing than the brood box. Brood is on 11 hoffman frames, and super 10 castellated spacing. Thanks

 

[drstitson]

No - best to have same spacing to reduce brace comb.

and many would say no castellations in "brood" boxes as they hamper bee-safe movement of frames.

 

[Suzi Q]

Put on q excluder then, and wait for the brood to emerge, in which case it will be a honey super? (After making sure Q is downstairs)

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

You could try Enrico's suggestion of putting the super at 90 degrees to the main box, which should minimise the brace comb, even that wont get away from issues with castillions though

 

[Poly Hive]

Remembering of course that the BB** frown on honey out of combs that have had brood in them..... *rolls eyes*

I find that having Manleys over Hoffmans makes no odds though I do know that it does make life a little more awkward for the colony when it comes to ventilation.

PH

 

[susbees]

Remembering of course that the BB** frown on honey out of combs that have had brood in them..... *rolls eyes*

The Honey Regs state broodless combs. That's the ones not currently occupied with brood. Not sure what the BBKA has to do with it?

 

[drstitson]

sus - as you say regs state "broodless" ie no brood present NOT virgin super comb.

BBKA input is obviously because they provide useful "guides" to good practice which most beeks refer to and which may go above and beyond the regs (possibly due to misunderstanding of the term "broodless")

 

[Suzi Q]

No - best to have same spacing to reduce brace comb.

and many would say no castellations in "brood" boxes as they hamper bee-safe movement of frames.

Is it brace comb between the top and bottom boxes that would be a potential problem?
Regarding castellations, in a way I find them easier, since they can only go back in one place! It is always tricky to get the hoffman frames pushed back exactly how they were after looking though the brood box.

 

[Suzi Q]

You could try Enrico's suggestion of putting the super at 90 degrees to the main box, which should minimise the brace comb, even that wont get away from issues with castillions though

That's abit radical for me. I remember someone did that at a training apairy and got a roasting.!
Re: castillions, in what way is it more difficult to remove/put back frames? I have only, so far, used them in supers and find them easy enough.

 

[oliver90owner]

Is it brace comb between the top and bottom boxes that would be a potential problem?

No. Every frame has to be moved vertically against the adjacent frame when inspecting - much easier and safer to move them sideways first (other than the initial frame/dummy).

Hoffmans tricky? They are self-spacing, so you only need to push them together to be in the same place!! That can't be 'tricky' surely?

 

[Suzi Q]

When I push them back together that is always when the bees get feisty, I do it too slowly because I don't want to crushed bees. For me it is the worst part of opening up the brood box! But I see what you mean about lifting out the frames, and yes much easier to move them sideways before lifting out vertically, which I can't do with castellations Got it!

 

[oliver90owner]

When I push them back together that is always when the bees get feisty

Non comprendez. You can put them back just like you would with castellations, should you so wish. I don't leave gaps, when replacing each frame, that bees can get trapped in. It may only be a slight adjustment to get the last frame/dummy in. You do have a hive tool, don't you?

 

[drstitson]

suziQ - in brood box with castellations you can't remove a frame/dummy and slide frames - you are forced to lift out and hence roll bees, possibly HM. same prob replacing.

what i do is remove end frame straight up and out and left to put back in far end. then the rest can be eased up onto the high bit of the castellation, then lifted out and away.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Re: castillions, in what way is it more difficult to remove/put back frames? I have only, so far, used them in supers and find them easy enough.

When looking through a brood box it is normal to remove a frame giving you extra space to inspect the combs without rolling bees etc. With castillions you are forced to use whatever space the bees have left in between each frame.

Good for honey supering, less good for brood boxes.

 

[Suzi Q]

O 90 O Now you're getting sarky! Yes I have a hive tool....and I can and do push them all back together, but that is usually when bees get squashed. For me, obviously, and no doubt I will become more confident the longer I keep bees. Thanks for your advice, and will think about how to get the 'half' on self-spacers.....is there such a thing as hoffman frames for supers?

 

[oliver90owner]

is there such a thing as hoffman frames for supers?

Hoffman shallows. Yes there are.

 

[Suzi Q]

Ta

 

[PatM]

Use SN4 or SN5 frames- their self spacing shallow Hoffman frames

 

[drstitson]

suzi - better getting the whole lot onto 14x12 (by shook swarm or BCC) or at least proper double (or triple - Finman) brood.

don't worry about rab and the hive tool - at least he didn't specify exactly what type like wot ITLD would've done!!!!!

 

[johnfly]

suzi - better getting the whole lot onto 14x12 (by shook swarm or BCC) or at least proper double (or triple - Finman) brood.

don't worry about rab and the hive tool - at least he didn't specify exactly what type like wot ITLD would've done!!!!!

suziQ - in brood box with castellations you can't remove a frame/dummy and slide frames - you are forced to lift out and hence roll bees, possibly HM. same prob replacing.

you can lift frame slowly to the top of castellations then slide back, you dont have to pull it up straight and roll bees its the thickness of the frame lug i dont see the problem that you have dr only again as before a little confusion for others, also just wondered why you had a go at ITLD when he has not commented on this, banter?