So whats the Beeehaus problem?

[wbchive]

To paraphrase: Those 14 x 12 frames are unwieldy and quite heavy when covered with bees

Does this counteract the objective of having small easy to lift supers. Am I correct in thinking that two 14x12 frames full of honey will be the same weight as full super?

The frames don't counteract the objective of having lighter supers, but the lid does. It's very heavy (on the Dartington, but not, presumably, on the Beehaus as it's plastic). The 14 x 12s are not uncomfortably heavy to lift, but they're damned awkward to inspect. You really have to shake/brush the bees off which you would do anyway when looking for queen cells, but you're upsetting a lot of bees all at once. If you hold them up for a few moments with bees on your arms begin to ache and the "whip it round and turn it over" method is very difficult if not impossible.

I don't think I ever noticed whether two full 14 x 12s were as heavy as a full super. Considering the areas involved I don't think they could be. Oliver90owner is right about the half-super honey boxes. When you lift one of them off the brood chamber the bees run up the side of the adjacent one and it's hard to replace the boxes without squashing bees. Three people I know of have replaced the honey boxes with full sized supers, and, incidentally, all of them have said the same, "The bees love the hive, but they don't make much honey." Perhaps in an area with loads of forage we might have done better, burr it's tuff oop North, tha knows.

Steve

 

[oliver90owner]

That all depends if the frames will fit in a tangental extractor

Mine is a radial and the extra tangential screens were included with it back then. They have never been used ...yet. I think they (Thorne) still do one including the extra screens, otherwise they are an arm and a leg. They may sometimes be added in with the winter offers on extractors.

I finally found a secondhand electric conversion kit for mine. Not fitted it yet. It is an early one-way drive set-up (no reverse) supplied originally by Thorne and I am going to look-see if it can easily be reversed.

Not sure that there is any benefit but I always wind the extactor backwards, just as a matter of course.

I know it won't be needed to run in reverse for tangential extraction.

Regards, RAB

 

[JCBrum]

Not sure that there is any benefit but I always wind the extactor backwards, just as a matter of course.

I know it won't be needed to run in reverse for tangential extraction.

Regards, RAB

I don't yet have my own extractor, being dependent on the club one.

However, I can't see any benefit in reverse running if the frames are held to be truly radial.

If they flop backwards and forwards a bit, and reversing direction moves them over a bit, then I can see a small benefit.

Is this your line of thought o90o, or do you think there might be more to it ?

 

[m100]

I don't think I ever noticed whether two full 14 x 12s were as heavy as a full super.

A quick rule of thumb for a fully utilised comb

3lb for a super frame
5lb for a brood frame
7lb for a 14x12 brood frame

Comparing usable comb areas:

Super = 13.25" x 4.5" x 2 = approx 120 square inches
Brood = 13.25" x 7.5" x 2 = approx 200 square inches
14x12 brood = 13.25" x 11" x 2 = approx 290 square inches

 

[oliver90owner]

more to it

The new ones are reversible. I wonder why?

Regards, RAB

 

[Hombre]

More efficient centrifugal extraction from the trailing face of the comb than the leading face?

 

[wbchive]

more to it

The new ones are reversible. I wonder why?

Regards, RAB

So that when you've wound the extractor up to Mach 2 "just to get out the last drop" and you've heard the almighty bang as all the comb flies out, you can put it in reverse and the comb will jump back in again.

If only!

Steve

 

[oliver90owner]

I am amused that the net information has not even been proof read properly. They actually refer to the honey bee as a greenfly (or very similar)

I see they now call our little honey bee 'apis' rather than 'aphis'.

I wonder who told them?

RAB

 

[David P]

I have two concerns with the bee haus.

1. In line with a lot of other people I am concerned that telling the public that beekeeping is easy peasy, is asking for trouble, in addition the marketing seems to be aimed very definately at urban beekeeping, which could very well end up with people runing the equvalent of 2 14"x12" colonys in a very small garden. With a lot of association courses allready oversubscribed for next year for a lot of new bee haus owners the first experience of opening a hive is when they tranfer the package bees they will have to buy from mike. Equally though anyone producing 14 x 12 nucs could do very well.

2. My second problem is as far as i can see from the marketing and please some one let me know if i have read this wrong is that once you have your 4 half sized supers on thats your lot with no further expansion possible. So assuming you have divided the main unit as part of your swarm control you are running 2 cononies with the equivalent of just one super per hive. Strikes me it wont be long at all before they run out of space.


Dont get me wrong I am all in favour of innovation, I just cant help worrying that before long it wont be varroa that the bees need saving from but people trying to save them.
Bees need people who are intereste in keeping bees because they are bees, not because its the latest fashion.

Rant over


David

 

[Cie]

I can't possibly speak for everyone who's been introduced to beekeeping by all of the recent media hype, but here's my point of view.

The Beehaus is expensive, prohibitively so, which is a good thing. It might prevent every Tom Dick and Harry buying one and causing all the obvious problems.

So, in the quest for a cheaper way of doing things they'll google, and find informative sites like this, and others that talk about hives, swarms, mites, stings, anaphylactic shock, bee ASBOs, commitment etc etc at which point a great many will probably move on to something a lot easier.

Those few can get past that all of that will realise that beekeeping is not a trivial matter and talk to people who have experience, make contact with the local group and start learning.

Of course, the Beehaus will be just right for some, and I'm sure that we'll see pictures of large apiaries full of them before long.

 

[JCBrum]

I'm sure that we'll see pictures of large apiaries full of them before long.

I very much doubt that.

People with large apiaries tend to have them because of some commercial, or research interest.

Such people know of better, cheaper, or more focussed, ways of keeping a lot of bees, and probably wouldn't find the Beehaus a viable method.

IMO, it's definitely aimed at the amateur with one or two hives, who requires convenience, but there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[thorn]

Articles I've read in the last couple of years have provoked my interest in beekeeping but I did nothing about following it up. Finally my wife decided to "give me " a course for my birthday to see if I might be seriously interested. She went on the Net to see what she could find. Our local beekeeping association's website was poor and uninformative in this respect, but she chanced upon the Omlet one.We'd neither of us noticed the blanket coverage of their new hives to which Brosville refers, so weren't either attracted or put off by their involvement.
I went yesterday and found the course both fascinating and informative. I recognise that it was only a taster, and that I'll need a lot more tuition before I get a hive. When I do it may well be an Omlet. But before making that decision I'll see what those who've had them for a while think of them, and ignore the comments of those who appear to have taken against them because they're new, made from non-traditional material, commercially marketed and don't require the DIY skills of Barry Bucknall (an area in which I'm lacking). If they're user friendly and the bees like them that'll do me.
Brosville commented that to get the coverage they have the Omlet people must "be on the square". On the contrary, the "antis" would be the more likely masons, grumbling about innovations and muttering "but we've always done it this way". Perhaps the media were interested because at last there was something new to say about beekeeping.
We newcomers need help and encouragement. We don't need to be put off or rejected by those who've been keeping bees for years. By all means point out the difficulties, but do it in a positive way. And don't attack the new just because it is a departure from the old ways.

 

[Brosville]

To find one's name used twice in a first post is at the very least, flattering - one could almost believe they'd actually read and understood what I wrote....
I am no stranger to the delights of being the "new kid on the block with an unusual hive", and am quite happy to admit to still being at the learning stage.
As to quite why a beginner should be tempted to buy a largely untried hive, made from a material not used for them before, at a price of more than double which one can obtain beautiful, craftsman-built cedar hives from a real craftsman is utterly beyond me - I won't go down the road of "aesthetics", I may say something less than entirely polite........
I'm not "rejecting" anyone who wants to keep bees, but I do have many (I think well-founded) reservations about superannuated tupperware boxes in garish colours, and voiced them. As for the "publicity blitzkrieg", I think I mentioned my admiration for a wonderfully carried-out blanket-bombing of the media, and probably a record-breaking amount of free plugs from the BBC - as to whether the people involved are all members of the same squash club, or the brownies, we can but conjecture........
By the way, welcome to the forum!

 

[JCBrum]

We newcomers need help and encouragement. We don't need to be put off or rejected by those who've been keeping bees for years

Welcome thorn,

I haven't been keeping bees for years, but since joining the forum I've gained much valuable help and advice ....

You will find a wide resource of views and experience amongst the members which will help you to obtain a broad perspective on the beekeeping community.

Take as many views as you find helpful ...... they will often differ significantly.

Brosville is Brosville, but he's our Brosville

-just pulling your leg a bit B.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

I went yesterday and found the course both fascinating and informative. .

Glad you liked my course.


James

 

[oliver90owner]

thorn,

First a welcome to the forum.

Our local beekeeping association's website was poor and uninformative

Beekeepers are not necessarily IT experts. I am sure there would have been a contact addy or number if you were interested enough to find out more. 'but I did nothing' is the bit I noted.

'Fraid I agree entirely (I think) with Brosville.

Why wait to see about an omlette. There is a well tried and tested wooden model that has been round the best part of a hundred years. Cheaper, possibly by a factor of three, to try as a starter as your wife could probably build a flat-pack for you.

those who've had them for a while think of them

None have yet had one for more than a few weeks (apart from the manufacturers and their employees). Proper evaluation might take a season or more to find any bugs in the design not smoothed out before production. When were you planning on starting?

Your total experience so far is of this one particular model. That is not a good basis for decision making. For a start I would very much doubt that the demonstrator is going to give it less than a glowing report, is (s)he? (sorry James)

Let's leave out media coverage, the politics and Masons. I would have no idea how many were beekeepers are masons, or the other way round, or the credentials of the programme makers or odf omlette. The coverage came much on the back of the excellent (IMO) documentary by Martha Kearney. A good ploy on the part of the hive designers but some really crass fopas' from the point of view of a seasoned beekeeper simply watching the presentations (7 frames in a 5 frame super for instance(!) is the only clip I have seen, as I do not watch the 'box', and describing the honeybee with the term 'aphis')

newcomers need help and encouragement

You are right there! Do the course, get a hive and get beekeeping! I don't mean the one day course on a new untried product and, clearly, you know that too. I mean a systematic course of beekeeping over a period of several weeks so that you might have a better understanding of some the many facets of the hobby/craft/art of keeping bees. After the course you might even decide beekeeping is not really for you.

Now, I cannot speak of the plastic version but I have detailed my views (on this forum) re the Dartington Long Deep Hive, from which it has been developed.

I have two of these and would not have built the second if I were not impressed by the concept. I have found things which I don't like about the design, but I can generally get around these short-comings (in my view) because I can. Some aspects are definitely much better than the plastic version available. For eg, the Dartington design is far more complete for keeping bees than is the plastic offering, IMO.

They say 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating'. History will show whether it is good or bad. My view is that there will be a cheaper, better plastic hive when the second and third generations of the concept arrive on the market.

Actually it is nothing really new. Plastic hives have been around now in excess of 20 years. The Dartington dates from late in the last century, and in parts, possibly from late in the previous one. Just the materials and manufacturing are different.

That may be good or it may not. I, among others, await to see the outcome. But I am not going to run out and buy one, or suspend my beekeeping pending the results!

Regards, RAB

 

[jimbeekeeper]

t

Your total experience so far is of this one particular model. That is not a good basis for decision making. For a start I would very much doubt that the demonstrator is going to give it less than a glowing report, is (s)he? (sorry James)

Not true Oliver.

I show both the Beehaus and national hives. I am quite critical of the omlet, but like wise of the national hive. You might want to read my blog to note some faults I post of the beehaus.

Yes I am paid by the people for my courses, (£15) and omlet take 20% but I am not on an commssion and have no loyalties to any compnay.

 

[m100]

I very much doubt that.

People with large apiaries tend to have them because of some commercial, or research interest.

Such people know of better, cheaper, or more focussed, ways of keeping a lot of bees, and probably wouldn't find the Beehaus a viable method.

IMO, it's definitely aimed at the amateur with one or two hives, who requires convenience, but there's nothing wrong with that.

I agree, but I doubt we'll see the Beehaus in anything other than the fringes of beekeeping. It's simply far too big for most urban sites, too expensive and introduces a whole different range of management/usage issues that simply wouldn't exist with many other types of movable frame hive. The 'four jars' or so 'for your honey crop' provided with the hive sums this up perfectly although a small margarine tub and a tea spoon to hack out the honey arch on the tops of the 14x12 frames might be more appropriate. The simple fact is that bees love tall hives and hate expanding horizontally.

Maybe I just struck lucky in my conversations over the past few weeks with other beekeepers but here appear to be a number of experienced ones who loathe the sight of anything like a Beehaus having tried a Dartington in the past and personally experienced many failings in its design. Also Omlet appear to misunderstand their market on a number of levels and in particular have missed or deliberately ignored a number of what I would see as perfect marketing opportunities for their products. But it's their loss.

 

[JCBrum]

Omlet appear to misunderstand their market on a number of levels

Brave words. We shall see.

Since the Beehaus became topical I keep seeing Eglus seemingly everywhere ........

I suppose previously, I just didn't know what they were ........

I wonder how they would have fared on 'Dragons' Den' ?

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Also Omlet appear to misunderstand their market on a number of levels and in particular have missed or deliberately ignored a number of what I would see as perfect marketing opportunities for their products. But it's their loss.

I think Omlet know exactly their market.