Snelgrove Board Mesh Hole Size

[Swift Nick]

I am making some Snelgrove Boards, I have read that the apertures in the mesh should be sized so that Varoa don’t drop from the upper box to the lower.

Next year will be my first full year beekeeping, so I don’t know if the varoa drop through the mesh is important, do any experienced beekeepers have an opinion about this, and if it is required to not let varoa through does anyone know the best mesh size?

It would look like a normal open mesh floor has an opening of 2.47mm (8 apertures per inch).

I don’t want to make the mesh so small that it stops the pheromones circulating between boxes.

Thanks Nick

 

[For want of a better word]

Looking at my old Snellgrove boards ( Probably made in his day!) the mesh is quite fine.. possibly 1/3rd the aperture of OMF screen.
Nos da

 

[fatshark]

I use very fine mesh to stop the Varroa getting through. I'm afraid I don't have the weave size ... count for yourself

If you're creative you can use the split as an opportunity to hammer the Varroa down.

 

[Swift Nick]

Thank you for the replies, that is a fine mesh, looks like 0.5mm, thanks for the image too, that would keep male & female varoa out, would probably cut out with scissors too.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Won't they already have mites when split.

What is to stop the mites from entering the bottom box when the little doors are manipulated to bleed off flying bees from the top into the lower box.

 

[Beefriendly]

I use very fine mesh to stop the Varroa getting through. .

Puzzled! Why does preventing varroa get through the mesh make it work?
There weren't any varroa when Snelgrove devised this swarm prevention/control.

 

[Swift Nick]

Stopping varoa getting through the mesh isn’t part of the Snelgrove method, it’s just something to consider if you are making your own board.
It just seems appropriate to select a mesh size to isolate the mites, it may have no added benefit, but its worth adding a feature that may help.

 

[Beefriendly]

It just seems appropriate to select a mesh size to isolate the mites, it may have no added benefit, but its worth adding a feature that may help.

Either it has a benefit or it doesn't.
I'm struggling to see any benefit...but I'm sure someone will be along to explain.
EDIT.....Figured it....if used for swarm prevention all the varroa in the brood could only "infect" their stable mates....and not infect the bees that were already infected below......Nah..... still not sure

 

[Poly Hive]

Has anyone successfully used the board for swarm control over a decent period, say 10 years+ with any success?

PH

 

[charlievictorbravo]

When I made a Snelgrove board 2 years ago, I committed the sin of under-thinking it - I just used what was to hand, which was 8 gauge ss mesh used in my OMFs. Now you lot have got me thinking about it, I don't believe I'll change it. Yes, a mite could fall through mesh into the bottom chamber but the mesh is just over 6% of the total floor area of the top chamber so I don't think it's a major problem.

As Spike Milligan replied when asked by his sergeant major "What are you doing here", "Everybody's got to be somewhere, Sarn Major". Same might apply to mites in a Snelgrove set-up - every mites has got to be somewhere and does it matter that there might be 6% more mites in the bottom box compared to the top?

CVB

 

[DanBee]

Has anyone successfully used the board for swarm control over a decent period, say 10 years+ with any success?

PH

In quantity, as Snelgrove described it, in eventually 5 or 6 various methods? No. Allegedly even Snelgrove himself gave up on it in the end. The underlying theory (excess brood food causes swarming, hence all the bleeding off of nurse bees) was wobbly at best. Where it worked, generally it was either by temporarily doubling the brood nest area, or as a convoluted artificial swarm.

Simplify it to a 1 door board and it becomes a vertical split procedure, much more useful and time-effective:

Otherwise, just do a Pagden.

 

[DanBee]

Won't they already have mites when split.

What is to stop the mites from entering the bottom box when the little doors are manipulated to bleed off flying bees from the top into the lower box.

 

[enrico]

In my humble opinion you will never completely control swarms. I have tried most methods and find that different methods suit different times of year and different situations. I use snelgrove boards if I am approaching a large summer flow and have fears that a swarm may be imminent. It keeps the strength of the hive up without losing collecting capacity.
E

 

[fatshark]

Won't they already have mites when split.

What is to stop the mites from entering the bottom box when the little doors are manipulated to bleed off flying bees from the top into the lower box.

It's the top box you clean up.

Assuming you're making increase you'll bleed flying bees from the top box and a new Q will emerge about 14-16 days after putting the board in. She'll fly and mate about 5-6 days later. She'll be laying a further ~3 days later. 6 days later her first larvae will be pupating.

That's more than enough time for all worker and drone brood to emerge in the top box.

You treat when they're broodless and then take the 'clean' split away.

I've treated colonies (actually casts) with virgin queens and they've been OK, but I'd prefer to let them mate, which is what I'd do with a split using a Snelgrove.

But like one of the earlier posters ... I usually use simpler split boards because all those damned doors confuse me

I suspect with careful timing and choice of unsealed brood you could also treat the bottom box at the beginning ...

 

[Hivemaker.]

It's the top box you clean up.

Assuming you're making increase you'll bleed flying bees from the top box and a new Q will emerge about 14-16 days after putting the board in. She'll fly and mate about 5-6 days later. She'll be laying a further ~3 days later. 6 days later her first larvae will be pupating.

That's more than enough time for all worker and drone brood to emerge in the top box.

You treat when they're broodless and then take the 'clean' split away.

I've treated colonies (actually casts) with virgin queens and they've been OK, but I'd prefer to let them mate, which is what I'd do with a split using a Snelgrove.

But like one of the earlier posters ... I usually use simpler split boards because all those damned doors confuse me

I suspect with careful timing and choice of unsealed brood you could also treat the bottom box at the beginning ...

Just a crown board with no hole and side entrance would achieve the same, regards cleaning up mites.

But assuming your splitting them up to make increase why not just take them straight away and avoid faffing around with boards of any kind.

 

[fatshark]

Because I don't have enough floors and roofs
And sometimes I just want to unite them down again to requeen.

 

[Poly Hive]

Ok so given the system is flawed why persist with it?

Personally, I was taught as a beginner it was rubbish and here we are 30 years later still faffing about.

No wonder people think it's all so difficult when we don't have the sense to throw out the rubbish.

KISS

PH

 

[SDM]

Has anyone successfully used the board for swarm control over a decent period, say 10 years+ with any success?

PH

"No answer", came the stern reply.

 

[Barbarian]

This thread is in the beginners section and has spread out beyond the original question.

I don't feel guilty about submitting this post.

I haven't used my Snelgrove for years. In use, I found it difficult to examine the lower brood box. Lifting off a Snelgrove, a 14 x 12 brood box and the lower supers to get to the lower brood box every 7-10 days for several weeks was off putting.

I find it easier to set up a separate small extra hive.

 

[Beefriendly]

Has anyone successfully used the board for swarm control over a decent period, say 10 years+ with any success?

Not over a 10 year period but I've used it very successfully for swarm control. It's not a 100% but method 2, where you put the queen with the queen cells, simply works. They tear the queen cells down...including the ones I (YOU A.N.OTHER) would have missed. But they don't collect honey at the rate Snelgrove reckoned they would.
Swarm prevention (Method 1) not done much, I reckon this is more down to strain of bee. My locals swarmed annually and I doubt this would have prevented them.
I prefer this to Demaree because I find as the brood emerges in the top box they back fill with nectar whereas with a Snelgrove board blocking they can't!
Like many I've simplified and rarely use more then one entrance...depends on what I'm trying to achieve with a particular colony.

Personally I think he was a very clever man, shame his book is a bit on the dull side.