Smoking bees

[kazmcc]

Those of you who know me will know I don't really like smoking the bees and usually don't bother, but as I had someone new with me last time, I thought it would be an idea to use smoke to make the experience a bit less buzzy for the guy. How wrong was I? Discovered my bees hate it. HATE IT!! They went mental. I was thinking about using a water spray instead but then again I've got this far without smoke or anything else to quieten the bees. If I think they are a bit pingy I usually take out the end frame and lay it over the top of the other frames, then switch.

Opinions? I understand some colonies dislike smoke too, anyone else out there have experience of this?

 

[pbh4]

What did you use in the smoker? I think it makes a difference. I tried some western red cedar shavings from my planer and the bees were quite aggressive. I have switched to pine and they are much happier. The WRC smells quite acrid even to me. The pine is much nicer all round.

Paul

 

[xgeordie]

It could be the stuff you are using in the smoker. However, I've also found my bees don't really need smoking before opening (and assuming its a "good" time to inspect). With my demon colony it just made them madder. I use the smoke to move the bees to avoid crushing.

 

[Teemore]

Like xgeordie i try only to use smoke to put the bees down before reassembling - i really hate the feel and sound of bees getting crunched when you reassemble and even when you slide crown boards and supers back on, sometimes you can't help but squash a few bees. I vary between using smoke and a fine water mist when I go around my colonies and both are effective but I find that the smoke works a little quicker. I have a couple of colonies I do not smoke at all as it just antagonises them. Over the past couple of years I have noted that some of the colonies I have regularly worked need little or no smoke - too much and they start to get defensive. It can be very easy to use too much smoke but you'll get the feel for what is right for your colonies.

Currently I use a mix of well dried coarse sawdust from some Ash and Eucalyptus trees we felled along with leaves from a bay tree that died in the frost and some pine cones. The smoke isn't too acrid to my senses and in general the bees seem to react favourably to it. A while back, Finman recommended using Birch bark or well rotted birch wood - I'm currently storing up s store of both for 2012.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

With the title of the thread, I thought you were putting old bees into Rizla paper! Just might work if they are dry enough!

As xgeordie writes, it seems to be the demon colonies that don't like it.

With one colony I had this year you had to be v-e-r-y v-e-r-y gentle handling the bees; too much smoke and they didn't like it, no smoke and they didn't like it either. One small knock on the hive or sudden movement and the would fly up. The relevent queen has now gone of course.

My view on smoking is that it's a bit like an anesthetic for the bees; a little does no harm in any case and I would rather have my tooth drilled with one than without.

 

[victor meldrew]

I'm saying nowt Kaz
VM

 

[For want of a better word]

I have trialed everything from dried donkey poo to lavender cuttings....

a gentle cool puff of corrugated cardboard smoke seem to calm them..... on an inspection on a warm summers day...........

and when I finally replace the Ashforth / Millar feeders with a crown board.. I will light up the smoker for the last time this year!

 

[susbees]

Minimal smoke here and never smoke entrances. Why force the bees up then down again?

What you use is definitely important. We don't use cardboard...it has additives and I've seen cardboard with sticky tape puffed at bees: why would anyone want to inhale that let alone perhaps smoke their future honey crop with it?

Dried sweetcorn husks, old hessian peanut sacks, dried ash twigs. And on a warm summer's day I won't even light the thing. Inspection cloths is a sort of level two before resorting to a smoker: keeps the bees feeling safe (we don't smoke our tbh as the bees are generally relaxed for this reason) so much less need and reduced entrances over OMF reduces the number of trained guard bees I'm sure.

 

[rockdoc]

Working with my father for many years, I have found that, if smoke is needed, punk wood is best. That is any rotten hard wood and the lighter the better. It tends to give a cool smoke and a slow burn with little or no acrid smell. A short walk through any woods will provide a good supply. Hang up in the shed and your ready to go for next year.

 

[For want of a better word]

Minimal smoke here and never smoke entrances. Why force the bees up then down again?

What you use is definitely important. We don't use cardboard...it has additives and I've seen cardboard with sticky tape puffed at bees: why would anyone want to inhale that let alone perhaps smoke their future honey crop with it?

Dried sweetcorn husks, old hessian peanut sacks, dried ash twigs. And on a warm summer's day I won't even light the thing. Inspection cloths is a sort of level two before resorting to a smoker: keeps the bees feeling safe (we don't smoke our tbh as the bees are generally relaxed for this reason) so much less need and reduced entrances over OMF reduces the number of trained guard bees I'm sure.

a gentle cool puff of corrugated cardboard smoke seem to calm them..... on an inspection on a warm summers day...........


I should have added only the corrugated beefriendly compressed smoker fuel available from any good bee supply specialists.

and on a warm summers day......

a fine mist of pure triple distilled aqua~dest with a micro liter of Cymbopogon citratus essential oil added

Clean pure Irish linen inspection cloths are essential at any hive inspection!

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I think, in many cases, it is the heat of the smoke that causes the aggravation rather than the fuel used.
Before you smoke the bees, puff some of the smoke onto your bare hand - if it's too hot for you then it's definitely too hot for the bees.

I only ever use rotten wood or hay in my smoker.

 

[yantabulla]

I really get worked up about this subject. Bees are much calmer with a few puffs of smoke. In dear old oz we use the bark of indigenous trees. I accept that this resource may not be available in the UK. If you are using smoker fuel that has been fiddled with you may give your bees the shits. I have been to the UK several times & I have not seen the trees we have here. All I am saying is try to use something from nature rather than cardboard or hessian Yanta

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

As xgeordie writes, it seems to be the demon colonies that don't like it.

- nasty colony earlier in the year reacted very badly to even a gentle puff, but as their mood improved later on in the year they also reacted better to smoke

 

[greatbritishhoney]

They other mistake people make is to give a puff of smoke then open the hive straight away.
You need to leave it at least a couple of minutes.

 

[MrB]

I have trialed everything from dried donkey poo to lavender cuttings....

Where do you get dried donkey from?

 

[itma]

Cool smoke, whole minutes before opening up, and very little of it has been a good starting point for me so far.

After getting the idea that there's smoke about, but not threateningly, they have seemed more responsive to subsequently being smoked off the bars and suchlike.
Not sure if it makes much odds to the bees, but I think it ought not to be 'acrid' smoke. Brown (old dry) Bay leaves wrapped in cardboard and maybe some hessian seems good.

In my inexperience, I have already seen bees react badly to too much smoke too quickly, smoke that was hot, and sharply nasty smoke.

 

[xgeordie]

There are some advisory leaflets from Beebase here:

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=167

The one on "Handling and Examining a Colony of Bees" recommends to "Use smoke sparingly to control the bees rather than “let them know you are coming” – smoke from the top downwards rather than from the bottom (smoking from the bottom drives the bees upwards)."

 

[For want of a better word]

Where do you get dried donkey from?

The Donkey Sanctuary in St Annes Chappel.........

 

[victor meldrew]

They other mistake people make is to give a puff of smoke then open the hive straight away.
You need to leave it at least a couple of minutes.

Was taught it was one of the threes
3 yards
3 miles
3 minutes
VM

 

[MandF]

I think it is worth mentioning the reasons smoke is used (or to hand) when inspecting - how it works - for beginners.
As other have mentioned, cool smoke is important otherwise you risk burning (and upsetting?) the bees. The way you puff affects the heat, but another tip is to put some damp grass/green leaves on the top of the wood/fuel - this cools the smoke as it passes through.
Smoke is meant to get the bees on alert to leave the hive - ie it is the first sign of a forest fire for them. In preparation they go down to eat honey - which means less bees "up top" and those which do eat honey are more placid as a result.
The other main reason to have smokers around is to mask alarm pheramones, particularly if you start getting bees stinging - this releases alarm pheramones and calls other guards to sting (and at the same place).
I rarely need to use smoke before opening my hives, mainly use it when reassembling to drive them away from the edges and avoid casualties, but have it on hand if the bees start to get feisty. Im not sure water spray helps with the latter?
Anyhow, thought this would be useful for beginners to be aware - it is good practice to always have a lit smoker even if you dont intend to use it.