Should package queen be flying?

[Terry G]

Just got our first ever bees. Had a package installed 3 days ago. Went to check queen cage this afternoon and found it empty, but at the bottom of the hive, partially covered in workers. After reassembling the hive we saw the marked queen flying around outside; we think she went back into the hive but are not sure. Is this normal? (is there anything normal about bee behaviour?!)

 

[Mellifera397]

No. She should be mated and laying, sounds like you've been given a marked virgin queen.
Although I've never heard of it before, more experienced beeks will be along shortly to impart their knowledge.

M

 

[Terry G]

No. She should be mated and laying, sounds like you've been given a marked virgin queen.
Although I've never heard of it before, more experienced beeks will be along shortly to impart their knowledge.

M

Oh. What happens if that is the case? Do I need to get a new mated queen?

 

[Tom Bick]

I doubt it will be a virgin more likely you perhaps knocked her of a frame and as she is not up to full laying mode she was able to fly.

Best leave them alone for a week or two and then check the hive keep an eye on them and when you see plenty of pollen entering the hive all should be good. I expect you have been recommended to feed them if not then that will be a good thing.

 

[Chris B]

I doubt it will be a virgin more likely you perhaps knocked her of a frame and as she is not up to full laying mode she was able to fly.

Best leave them alone for a week or two and then check the hive keep an eye on them and when you see plenty of pollen entering the hive all should be good. I expect you have been recommended to feed them if not then that will be a good thing.

except I'd definitely check after a week

 

[Terry G]

I shall keep my fingers nervously but firmly crossed.
And I thought beekeeping was going to be a tranquil, calming experience!

 

[For want of a better word]

Most exporters mark and mutilate the queen by wing clipping once checked for laying.
There again I expect a nanopenny can be saved by not wing clipping!
The importer then shakes bees into a "package" and puts the imported queen into a queen cage in the box.
I somehow doubt if your queen is UK bred... particularly this early after such a disastrous season for beekeepers.

No criticism intended as I know some are desperate of any bees at any cost, even if this does not follow the good BBKA advice of NOT IMPORTING queens with the risk of bringing a new strain of bee virus into the UK.
I know many beekeepers hold very strong views on this.
Personally I have only ever bought UK bred queens, or nucs with a known pedigree from a local known breeder.

 

[REDWOOD]

And I thought beekeeping was going to be a tranquil, calming experience!
You will have them days

 

[user 6228]

I shall keep my fingers nervously but firmly crossed.
And I thought beekeeping was going to be a tranquil, calming experience!

The hardest bit is just letting them get on with it without opening the box.
Remember inspecting the bees can change their state... e.g. dropping the queen

Definitely Schroedinger's Bees.

 

[Terry G]

Most exporters mark and mutilate the queen by wing clipping once checked for laying.


No criticism intended as I know some are desperate of any bees at any cost, even if this does not follow the good BBKA advice of NOT IMPORTING queens with the risk of bringing a new strain of bee virus into the UK.
I know many beekeepers hold very strong views on this.
Personally I have only ever bought UK bred queens, or nucs with a known pedigree from a local known breeder.

My bees are UK bred, from the vice-chairman of the local BKA who was a bee inspector for 5 years.

 

[For want of a better word]

My bees are UK bred, from the vice-chairman of the local BKA who was a bee inspector for 5 years.

Lucky you.... weather must be BRILLIANT where you are.... could be an overwintered queen?
Then I am surprised not sold as a nuc.
Good luck.

 

[Chris B]

Lucky you.... weather must be BRILLIANT where you are.... could be an overwintered queen?
Then I am surprised not sold as a nuc.
Good luck.

I've sold more packages than nucs this year, yes with overwintered queens. To sell a nuc you have to have the same type of hive as your buyer. A lot more freedom with a package.

 

[Swarm]

One of my queens took to the wing last weekend and she is overwintered. Queens avoid the light so they say, this one loved it!!
Anyway, last seen flying down a banking, I decided it may be wise to replace the old alighting board and went to get it (about a minute tops). On my return, there she was sitting under the hive. Popped her back in, job done.

Never bought a package myself but I'm wondering about orientation. I hope she knows her way back.

 

[beekeeping4you]

Hi Terry,
Let's hope that she made it back into the hive. If the package was hived on frames with foundation then the queen has to wait until the first cells are drawn out deep enough for laying. Only when she is back to full laying capacity she will loose the ability to fly, so be careful when you check for eggs in a week or so. Pull a single frame from the centre of the cluster and if it should contain eggs than nothing further except feeding is required for another week.
A single varroa treatment (OA trickling!?) before the brood is capped is highly recommended and could make your beekeeping a tranquil, calming experience for the rest of the season...

Regards
Reiner

 

[beeno]

I shall keep my fingers nervously but firmly crossed.
And I thought beekeeping was going to be a tranquil, calming experience!

Hi Terry G,
That must have been a shock and well done spotting a flying queen!
There are tranquil moments - not many. Right now I am missing the quiet hum of the winter cluster as presently they sound like they are revving up to swarm!

 

[Terry G]

Thanks Reiner, seldom have I experienced such a gulf between what I know and what I need to know! Just hope my bees don't perish while I'm clambering up the learning curve.

 

[Terry G]

I'd like to claim credit but it was my eagle-eyed wife who spotted the queen.

 

[susbees]

Flying queens are more common than the text book...the queen never leaves the hive again except to swarm....story.

Marking queens with a good laying pattern in mini-nucs....quite common....good sport catching them (usually!) with a gentle swipe of the hand.

Text-book clipped queen....had one move in through a tiny knot in a wooden garage wall 100m from the hive. And had to cut her out again.

Cut out the other week (22 April) overwintered queen in-lay..."swarmed" the next day 50m into brambles.

Mated, laying queens fly it seems...

 

[Into the lions den]

Most exporters mark and mutilate the queen by wing clipping once checked for laying.
There again I expect a nanopenny can be saved by not wing clipping!
The importer then shakes bees into a "package" and puts the imported queen into a queen cage in the box.
I somehow doubt if your queen is UK bred... particularly this early after such a disastrous season for beekeepers.

No criticism intended as I know some are desperate of any bees at any cost, even if this does not follow the good BBKA advice of NOT IMPORTING queens with the risk of bringing a new strain of bee virus into the UK.
I know many beekeepers hold very strong views on this.
Personally I have only ever bought UK bred queens, or nucs with a known pedigree from a local known breeder.

Mutilate??? Bit judgemental there, for someone who does not buy such things. Maybe 'many' beekeepers do hold the views you mention, but just as many, probably more, do not. As in the neonics thread, noise level does not equal majority.

The scenario you portray DOES happen, I know it does and could name names, but it really is a minor part of the trade.

FWIW these queens are very rarely clipped, and not all that often marked either.

back to the original question, its is not unknown to get a VQ inadvertently in a package, or even a cage for that matter, albeit it should not happen. they may well try to fly and mate. Just occasionally, before the queens are into full lay (fined down condition), you can occasionally see them fly. Have even seen our own queens do this. (Far too often.)

 

[Pete D]

Just got our first ever bees. Had a package installed 3 days ago. Went to check queen cage this afternoon and found it empty, but at the bottom of the hive, partially covered in workers. After reassembling the hive we saw the marked queen flying around outside; we think she went back into the hive but are not sure. Is this normal? (is there anything normal about bee behaviour?!)

My bees are UK bred, from the vice-chairman of the local BKA who was a bee inspector for 5 years.

Hi Terry,
what is your bee suppliers take on this, what was his explanation ?
Good luck