Sad end to a promising year...

[SireeDubs]

So, having begun to feel like a 'proper' beekeeper in my second season (with lots of honey and enjoyment), I think nature has prevailed and my progressively weakened colony is all but gone.

I've learned lots, especially that I DESPISE wasps, but I do feel very sad that I couldn't have done better for them and kept them going. A substantial varroa infestation that came on very quickly in a very strong colony, followed by concerted wasp attacks (whatever I did and even after moving) has just finally taken its toll. I'd moved them to a polynuc as they were on just 4 frames (feeding Ambrosia)... Now I could count them in their low hundreds and I feel that there's nothing more to be done. Queen is there, but no brood.

I know that this can be quite a no-nonsense(!) forum, and I'm sure there are many beeks with many, many colonies who think that mulling over the loss of one colony is stupid... I do apologise if this is the case, but some (kind?) words about starting again or what I could have done better would be greatly appreciated.

*sniff*

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Can't recall what exactly has happened over the last season, but I can see introspection acting already which is the start of trying to fathom what happened and avoiding it the next time, it is sad when you lose a colony, worse if it's your only one but all I can advise is look carefully at what's happened, analyse that and learn from your experience/mistakes Spend the winter reading up and preparing, then a fresh start the next year. You say your colony has dwindled but still alive - how did you treat the varroa? when did treatment stop? could it be a factor in the queen not laying? Take it from there

 

[pargyle]

That's very sad ... you are in the Varroa capital of the UK in Devon though ... some colonies are not meant to survive no matter what you do with them and wasps will exploit any weakness they find. Clean your kit, count your losses, get ready for a nice new swarm early next year. It's all a learning experience ...

It will be better next time. Good luck with what's left of your colony, feed them up, dummy them down to a small space and insulate them as much as you can and they may surprise you.

 

[For want of a better word]

Stick with it!

If your colony does dwine away and dwindle... do not despair, it is nature at work.
NEXT season try to get some nice Welsh black Amms.
Believe me you are not the only beekeeper ( and you ARE now a beekeeper.. ) who has lost their bees!

Chin up !

 

[Gilberdyke John]

So, having begun to feel like a 'proper' beekeeper in my second season (with lots of honey and enjoyment), I think nature has prevailed and my progressively weakened colony is all but gone.

I've learned lots, especially that I DESPISE wasps, but I do feel very sad that I couldn't have done better for them and kept them going. A substantial varroa infestation that came on very quickly in a very strong colony, followed by concerted wasp attacks (whatever I did and even after moving) has just finally taken its toll. I'd moved them to a polynuc as they were on just 4 frames (feeding Ambrosia)... Now I could count them in their low hundreds and I feel that there's nothing more to be done. Queen is there, but no brood.

I know that this can be quite a no-nonsense(!) forum, and I'm sure there are many beeks with many, many colonies who think that mulling over the loss of one colony is stupid... I do apologise if this is the case, but some (kind?) words about starting again or what I could have done better would be greatly appreciated.

*sniff*

The important thing is you have learned! I have managed to avoid serious wasp trouble by enthusiastically searching out and poisoning wasp nests, using simple jam and water cut off inverted neck coca cola bottle traps and keeping entrances restricted so the guard bees could cope with any attempted raids.
I think the most traumatic thing I suffered was the effect of the varroa treatments and next year I will bring them forward by one or two weeks.

 

[SireeDubs]

Diolch yn fawr Jenkins. I'm hoping I can start over with a better understanding all round. Books and courses are all very well, but the bees don't read them.

I just hope I can get as docile and as pleasant a colony next year...

 

[For want of a better word]

Varroa capital of the UK in Devon


I know the wee beastie is reported as having got on a bus from an Abbey up the line from Totnes, and was first found in Cockington.

When I lived and kept bees the wrong side of the Tamar.. my bee's varroa infestations were few and far between ! ( IPM I suppose?)

 

[SireeDubs]

Thanks to all so far. If I know one thing, it's that I've loved this hobby, expensive and unpredictable as it is.

Guess I just need to have a look at the pros and cons of swarms v nucs, considering the £££ involved!

 

[pargyle]

Varroa capital of the UK in Devon

When I lived and kept bees the wrong side of the Tamar.. my bee's varroa infestations were few and far between ! ( IPM I suppose?)

Good beekeeping and husbandry ... perhaps with a bit of luck thrown in. Hampshire is pretty much next on the varroa hotspot list I'm afraid ...

 

[itma]

"Dwindling" makes me think of Nosema.
During Summer makes me refine that to the ceranae version.
Nosema ceranae is NOT associated with dysentry and poo stains (thats Nosema apis, the traditional and winter version).
With ceranae they just ... dwindle away.

Worth testing them I'd say.
Needs no more than 30 dead bees. And a 400x microscope.
Since the spores can survive for a year or so, even already dead bees should do at a pinch.
I like the idea of Randy Oliver's "quick squash" testing - looking at individual bees and seeing what proportion are full of the thing and what proportion are relatively or completely clear, rather than making a 30 bee soup at a controlled dilution and then trying to count spores under the microscope.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/sick-bees-part-16-the-quick-squash-method/


The 'official BBKA' treatment is to get them onto clean comb. Either new foundation (clearly not a good idea at this time of the year) or Acetic-fumigated drawn comb. Bailey change is less stressful than a shook swarm changeover.
Clearly the official treatment protocol should be followed, if Nosema is detected (and fumigating the old comb, box, floor, etc.)
But there may be more that can be done.
Unofficially - strongly (3x Manley's concentration) thymolated and well-emulsified syrup might help as a tonic. Nosema is a fungal gut infection. Thymol is a powerful anti-fungal, but to get any of it actually into the bees' guts it does need to be emulsified into the syrup. Thymol barely dissolves at all in ambient temperature water.

Anyway, worth testing to see if that is the cause, and even if its too late for treating this lot it should help with recognition and treatment in future.

 

[Skyhook]

Varroa is one thing where you can't take your eye off the ball for a moment. While I know there are some on here who would advocate only treating when varroa is apparent, the problem is that it can be present but not apparent until it is too late, unless your monitoring is state-of-the-art. For this reason I would always advocate being proactive.

'Dwindling' can also be indicative of nosema. For this reason, unless you are certain it is not present, I would advocate sterilizing the hive before re-use and thinking very carefully about re-using frames and foundation.


Better luck next time: and if it's possible to have 2 hives it is preferable, as you then have a 'repair kit' if anything goes wrong with one.


.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

"Dwindling" makes me think of Nosema.
During Summer makes me refine that to the ceranae version.

itma's right - it doesn't show the classic beekeeping forum symptoms (sh!t all over the place ) and one of the symptoms is a queen going off lay. if i remember correctly the spores are rounder than the nosema apis 'rice grain' shape - nothing to lose by putting them under a glass

 

[Dishmop]

A shame but all might not be lost.
You seem to be doing all the right things, and cant see that you previously did anything wrong. It happens.
Lucky you still have a queen.

Think of the joy you'll get if they come thro.

 

[sharonh]

Don't give up.
Learn from mistakes. We all have to learn.
Good advice above, take this seasons experience to move forward.
You can start afresh next year.
Prepare well and you should be fine, investing in anything you might need for next year.
Chin up, as they say, if you fall from a horse, get back up,is the best medicine.
Sharon

 

[SireeDubs]

"Dwindling" makes me think of Nosema.
During Summer makes me refine that to the ceranae version.
Nosema ceranae is NOT associated with dysentry and poo stains (thats Nosema apis, the traditional and winter version).

Thanks Itma and Jenkins. This is another thing that I can read up on. My own theory (would appreciate anyone pointing out errors in my thinking) is that the varroa (along with some DWV) really affected the strength of the colony (especially via the capped brood).
Though I thought I was looking out for it, and got the treatment on in early august, the varroa levels were high. I treated with Apilife Var and each successive week saw the levels drop considerably (or was it proportionate with a shrinking colony?). During this period, my queen ceased laying, which I saw as being associated with the treatment.
The ****** wasps arrived in late august and attacked my weakened colony and at this point I thought it was all over. I hunted and killed 3 nests, but as I live in open countryside, there were evidently more I couldn't hope to find. Carefully placed (and very effective) traps combined with a polynuc move saw them rally a little, but the wasps seem to have been insistent and have got the upper hand with the last few days of sunshine. No brood still, wax moth and flippin' wasps coming and going at will.
Throughout I've been feeding and they have some stores.

Perhaps a simple chain of events: varroa - no brood- wasps etc...

Whichever, it's rubbish, but I will adapt and overcome. The help on here is invaluable and very kind. Thanks.

 

[Cazza]

Varroa is one thing where you can't take your eye off the ball for a moment. While I know there are some on here who would advocate only treating when varroa is apparent, the problem is that it can be present but not apparent until it is too late, unless your monitoring is state-of-the-art. For this reason I would always advocate being proactive.

Better luck next time: and if it's possible to have 2 hives it is preferable, as you then have a 'repair kit' if anything goes wrong with one.
.

Skyhook is spot on here.
I like to use Hiveclean (other methods are available) in the spring and early summer once or twice to see what level of varroa it brings down so I can see if I need to act. (Better than simply counting)

Two hives definitely better than one.
Chin up and try again next year.
Cazza

 

[Skyhook]

If you are still having wasp trouble, reduce entrance to a single bee space, and lean a sheet of glass in front of the hive. The bees will go round it, the wasps will try to follow line of sight.

Feed with thymolated syrup- if there is nosema present, this is the best you can do for them.


.

 

[itma]

...
Feed with thymolated syrup- if there is nosema present, this is the best you can do for them.
...

It might well be, but (as I indicated earlier) don't write that in a BBKA exam and hope to pass!

 

[Susan1]

I am sorry that you have had a problem with the Hive. I just want to say I know how you feel. I also lost a big healthy hive this year and felt really down about it. I am sure that it was the wasps who finally did for them. I have got over it and hope to try some different things next year to keep them going( I am luck as I have another hive).
I enjoy the forum too but as there are so many different ways to look after the Bees just do what feels best for you and read lots of books and enjoy
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It might well be, but (as I indicated earlier) don't write that in a BBKA exam and hope to pass!

Why would one be concerned about passing in the first place? bit like having a degree in 'media studies' - if the certificate has writing on both sides it's not even of use as a prospective shopping list!!