Rookie error - queenless hive

[margob99]

Coronavirus lockdown stopped me from inspecting a hive at the home of someone who has needed help with his bees. I finally did an inspection yesterday, and the hive appears queenless.

This is what we saw:

Broodbox filling fast with pollen.
No brood in any stage.
2 supers above (no QX) filled to the brim with honey.
Lots of bees, quiet and happy, after an initial roar on opening the hive.
5 empty QC.
A lot of brace comb.

A swarm was reported nearby 1 month ago. I am guessing, from the empty QC, there were at least 3 subsequent casts.

Hive owner has ordered a Queen through the mail, arriving today.

But I am wondering if there' s a Virgin in there somewhere, as the bees' temperament was good. I am able to get a frame filled with BIAS from someone else's hive.

I just don't want to waste the Queen coming today.

So my question is - do you think it would be ok to put in both the BIAS frame AND the new Queen (obviously in the container, taped, between 2 frames, allowing3 - 4 days for bees to become acquainted)? Yes, we may sacrifice the new Queen, but I feel like to do both is a positive way to hedge all options.

All comments and advice appreciated, but please be kind!

Thank you.

 

[Repwoc]

If you put in a test frame AND a caged queen then if they don't draw QCs you won't know if it's because there is already a queen in there or if it's the caged queen that they can sense.

I would put the frame of BIAS in and then check the next day for QCs. The new queen will be OK for a few days in the travel cage with a smear of water a few times each day.

What are you going to do with the new queen if there is already a queen in the hive?

 

[margob99]

Thanks, reassuring to know I can hold the posted Queen in her container a couple more days.

In answer to your last question, there are membership apiaries nearby; I know the members and could offer her to them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My betting is that there is a virgin or newly mated queen in there, the only sensible thing to do is pop in a test frame (although it won't give you a definitive answer either way)
You put in that new bought in queen and I can almost definitely say that you will be putting her in to her certain death.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

My betting is that there is a virgin or newly mated queen in there, the only sensible thing to do is pop in a test frame (although it won't give you a definitive answer either way)
You put in that new bought in queen and I can almost definitely say that you will be putting her in to her certain death.

Hi Emyr - what's a possible scenario that they build QCs on the test frame but there is still a queen present?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi Emyr - what's a possible scenario that they build QCs on the test frame but there is still a queen present?

The likelihood is no QC's will be built but that won't tell you whether they are queenless or not - they don't always build QC's even when they need to. If the do build some then it's almost certain they are Q- but nothing in the OP's story convinces me that there isn't a queen in there newly mated or waiting to mate.
Putting in another queen would be a terrible waste.

 

[Wingy]

How about take a couple of frames out and put in a Nuc, ensure no Q, some stores & introduce your bought in Q. This will need to be moved away as all bees are flying.
In the space add a couple of frames, at least 1 with eggs & young larvae.
If they draw Q cells then break them down & combine with nuc. If no Q cells then check in a week or so, you may end up with a hive & a nuc

 

[ericbeaumont]

How about take a couple of frames out and put in a Nuc, ensure no Q, some stores & introduce your bought in Q.

Yes.

 

[oliver90owner]

Wingy and Eric have it perfectly.

Saves the queen and she is available, should any new queen off-spring turn out to be bad tempered. Less risk of losing your bought-in queen, can be given away or sold later if surplus, etc, etc.