Robbing

[Itchy]

Without assuming what is happening, simple question requiring a simple answer.
Will bees that are robbing be carrying pollen?

 

[pargyle]

Without assuming what is happening, simple question requiring a simple answer.
Will bees that are robbing be carrying pollen?

No ... are you talking about when they come out of the hive that is being robbed or when they arrive at their own hive ?

In order to see whether a hive is being robbed you usually need to see the bees at the entrance of the hive that is being robbed. Bees tend to come out very slowly and their take off is a bit ponderous as they are stuffed full of honey - if there are any bees left in the hive being robbed then you would probably see some fighting at the entrance - although it is not always the case as it is usually very weak, small or diseased colonies that suffer robbing.

It begs the question why are you asking ?

 

[Itchy]

I'll re phrase the question.
Would a bee, internet on robbing a honey store, enter the honey store whilst carrying pollen? Kind of stopping off for a honey fill up before going home with both pollen and honey.
Next part....do bees rob pollen stores when robbing a hive?

 

[pargyle]

I'll re phrase the question.
Would a bee, internet on robbing a honey store, enter the honey store whilst carrying pollen? Kind of stopping off for a honey fill up before going home with both pollen and honey.
Next part....do bees rob pollen stores when robbing a hive?

So ... if you see a bee coming out of a hive and fly off carrying pollen in it's pollen sacs is it robbing ? The answer is No ... bees intent on robbing are only interested in honey .. if they get into the hive they intend to rob they will gorge themselves on honey to the point where they can barely fly and then return to their own hive to disgorge it and let their mates know where they found it ..

If you have seen a bee coming out of a hive carrying pollen the odds are that it's just got into the wrong hive - 'drifting' is not unusual where hives are close together - and has recognised that she's in the wrong colony and is heading for home.

Next part .. No they don't rob pollen and don't damage any brood - they are just after the stored honey and see the opportunity.

 

[abm]

If you have seen a bee coming out of a hive carrying pollen the odds are that it's just got into the wrong hive - 'drifting' is not unusual where hives are close together - and has recognised that she's in the wrong colony and is heading for home.

Fantastic information..... many thanks.

 

[Cb50]

Robbing advice......I am not 100% sure if this is just lots of activity after a cold night, with the sun now shinning on the hive and bees eager to get out and in - or robbing - I did see some bouncing and the odd tumble but maybe a trained eye can guide me.

One of the videos was in slow motion (2) on my phone but not sure if that comes through - there is a big tumble at the beginning of it. Entrance is down to 1 inch.

Hopefully the videos come through ok....This was at 10am. There is sign of pollen going in an hour later which shows my bees are out working an returning.

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A3GY8gBYuNU4N

 

[YorkshireBees]

Robbing advice......I am not 100% sure if this is just lots of activity after a cold night, with the sun now shinning on the hive and bees eager to get out and in - or robbing - I did see some bouncing and the odd tumble but maybe a trained eye can guide me.

One of the videos was in slow motion (2) on my phone but not sure if that comes through - there is a big tumble at the beginning of it. Entrance is down to 1 inch.

Hopefully the videos come through ok....This was at 10am. There is sign of pollen going in an hour later which shows my bees are out working an returning.

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A3GY8gBYuNU4N

I still have one hive in my back garden (used as an isolation apiary) and therefore I'm able to observe it at different times of the day.
They appear to start flying very early and in very cool temps. (07:30 @ 7.0C the other morning) but as soon at the temp rises a bit and / or the sun hits the hive there is a lot more activity.

What I would basically say is from those videos I do not think there is robbing taking place. It's impossible to tell 100% from one angle. I can say that the one hive I am observing is very active and there appears to be a lot of orientation flights as well as foragers arriving / leaving. I have the normal entrance reducer (block) in but have not reduced the entrance further and they seem to cope fine with the couple of wasps that hang around outside the hive.

In view of the amount of activity then reducing the entrance to a small gap may well make it appears that there is fighting (the odd bee tumbles out).

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

 

[midnight sun]

Video's look normal to me. Mine look like that when they are busy. If they were being robbed, usually, there is fighting and plenty of dead and dying bees around. Wouldn't worry yet, still early as temps. are up. I would say that once you have seen genuine robbing, you will definitely know it next time.

 

[YorkshireBees]

Video's look normal to me. Mine look like that when they are busy. If they were being robbed, usually, there is fighting and plenty of dead and dying bees around. Wouldn't worry yet, still early as temps. are up. I would say that once you have seen genuine robbing, you will definitely know it next time.

Once you've seen it you will always recognise it.

 

[Bosleeu]

I'll re phrase the question.
Would a bee, internet on robbing a honey store, enter the honey store whilst carrying pollen? Kind of stopping off for a honey fill up before going home with both pollen and honey.
Next part....do bees rob pollen stores when robbing a hive?

Just back to the original question:

I spend (or waste, if you ask my wife), an awful lot of time watching bees. I cannot recall ever seeing a bee leaving a hive with pollen baskets.

Sometimes they will crash-land and seem to take off and hover around a bit before entering the hive, but never seem to fly off laden with pollen.

As I understand it they gather pollen as they forage, bring it back to the hive where it is mixed with nectar, processed and eaten or stored. If you look at pollen stores in the comb it is often quite hard and sticky.

If you leave bees some comb with stores to clear up above the frames, they will mostly leave the pollen in my experience.

So I really doubt they will rob pollen out of another hive, especially this time of year with all the ivy out there. I also don't think think they will stop off to rob some honey on the way back from a pollen run.

 

[Cb50]

I still have one hive in my back garden (used as an isolation apiary) and therefore I'm able to observe it at different times of the day.
They appear to start flying very early and in very cool temps. (07:30 @ 7.0C the other morning) but as soon at the temp rises a bit and / or the sun hits the hive there is a lot more activity.

What I would basically say is from those videos I do not think there is robbing taking place. It's impossible to tell 100% from one angle. I can say that the one hive I am observing is very active and there appears to be a lot of orientation flights as well as foragers arriving / leaving. I have the normal entrance reducer (block) in but have not reduced the entrance further and they seem to cope fine with the couple of wasps that hang around outside the hive.

In view of the amount of activity then reducing the entrance to a small gap may well make it appears that there is fighting (the odd bee tumbles out).

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

Thanks all for that - I am rarely at home during week during day, and at wekends with three children it is busy. Was nice to sit there for about an hour watching.

It did seem to look ok - it was just the tumbling I saw - after watching for longer i think they were just flying in, hitting a fast exiting bee and doing some acrobatics.

I opened the hive for the likely last time before winter to remove the QE, take off the extra super that was on there to give space for the MAQs, removed the old MAQS (which they were gluing down!), checked the frames and the box seemed very full, with some brood, but mainly stores and pollen now, lots of bees, so I am hopeful thi one is strong enough for the winter. It came from a swarm in May, no excess honey this year as it went queenless at one point and now is back up to good strength.

My second hive did have some wasp issues, robbing a few weeks ago so i closed it down to 1 inch, with a poly roof i could see the buggers in there eating away. Now seems fine. Feeding it up at it is only on 6 frames, lots of stores, and some brood. Will take out the empty frames and fill with insulation once the weather looks like turning, keep feeding until then or until they stop taking it down.

First year, lots learning. more to learn.....

Thanks for the help on the videos, will carry on watching, reading and learning.

 

[beeno]

Just back to the original question:

If you leave bees some comb with stores to clear up above the frames, they will mostly leave the pollen in my experience.

Hi Bosleeu,
I also spend a lot of time watching the hives. With regard to your statement above, I have been feeding a nuc with pollen in comb above frames due to their very poor pollen stores. They cleaned it right out. I assume they were nurse bees just emerging as they need to eat lots of pollen the first four days to develop their Hypopharyngeal Glands in readiness for feeding the larvae when it emerged below.

 

[beeno]

Next part .. No they don't rob pollen and don't damage any brood - they are just after the stored honey and see the opportunity.

Just so we don't tempt any beginners from having their wet supers cleaned up by robbing bees. They will destroy the comb in their eagerness to get every single morsel of honey.
If the robbers are wasps or hornets which are omnivors then the brood and bees would be eaten as well of course, but that is another question.

 

[pargyle]

Just so we don't tempt any beginners from having their wet supers cleaned up by robbing bees. They will destroy the comb in their eagerness to get every single morsel of honey.

Well ... That's a new one for me ... I've seen a hive that was robbed out completely by another colony ... The comb was stripped clean of honey but the wax was left intact and there was pollen and brood left behind ... A handful of very weak looking bees from the original colony were still alive but a very sad looking state of affairs ... Perhaps someone else could confirm that robbing bees will destroy comb ? Wasps ... Well that's another matter ...

I'm not sure how anyone would organise robbing to cleàr wet supers ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well ... That's a new one for me ... I've seen a hive that was robbed out completely by another colony ... The comb was stripped clean of honey but the wax was left intact and there was pollen and brood left behind ... A handful of very weak looking bees from the original colony were still alive but a very sad looking state of affairs ... Perhaps someone else could confirm that robbing bees will destroy comb ? Wasps ... Well that's another matter ...

I'm not sure how anyone would organise robbing to cleàr wet supers ?

A few clowns around me will just leave wet supers out to be 'robbed' clean, never seen the comb destroyed though - gets a little bit nibbled at the extremities, but that's all.
Had wasps find their way into an (allegedly!) sealed nuc in the shed last year containing a few brood frames of capped stores I was saving for creating nucs this season . They stripped the combs clean of honey but the comb was fit for using after they had finished.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If the robbers are wasps or hornets which are omnivors then the brood and bees would be eaten as well of course, but that is another question.

Not at the same time though.
Wasps feeding their grubs on protein while their nests grow will take brood.
When the nest matures and they move on to sweet feeding they will take honey and bee abdomens.

 

[Itchy]

Once again, will bees carrying pollen rob another hive that is unguarded?

 

[pargyle]

Once again, will bees carrying pollen rob another hive that is unguarded?

Beeno's do but the rest of the planet's bees don't ...

 

[Bosleeu]

Well ... That's a new one for me ... I've seen a hive that was robbed out completely by another colony ... The comb was stripped clean of honey but the wax was left intact and there was pollen and brood left behind ... A handful of very weak looking bees from the original colony were still alive but a very sad looking state of affairs ... Perhaps someone else could confirm that robbing bees will destroy comb ? Wasps ... Well that's another matter ...

I'm not sure how anyone would organise robbing to cleàr wet supers ?

Found the same here. I started out by letting the bees clean wet supers in the open, at the other end of the garden. Apart from some wax dust below the supers the comb was left perfect.

Everybody here seem to hate the idea, so I have stopped and now put the supers under the broodboxes for cleaning. But never saw them destroy comb.

 

[BeeJayBee]

destroy comb.

No, but wax moth does and so do mice, shrews, voles, and slugs.

Surely a bee that's already carrying a full pollen load will hand it over for storage before attempting to collect nectar? They can only carry so much weight.