Reuniting after failed mating

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Beware of simple anecdotal responses re laying and stores or presence of eggs/larvae. Without proof., these are only isolated observations which are likely unconnected with a queen starting to lay.

Yes, in exceptional circumstances, the queen will not commence laying if the colony is simply too small or at the point of starvation. But she may well have started to lay despite the other attentions of the beekeeper.

Queens are generally laying just a few days after mating (usually before four?). If the colony is exceedingly strong, the necessity for the queen to be laying may be reduced, but it will be the workers who determine the lay rate (if stores are being used up rather quickly, they may delay the onset of further brooding).

Bees generally know what they are doing. They will not normally put the colony at risk more than necessary. In a phrase ' bees know best'.

I have opened colonies in spring and found some are brooding whereas some may not be. Adding some stimulation (thin syrup feed) may encourage brooding - an expected outcome in most cases. But that is a different scenario to summer requeening of one sort or another.

No amount of feeding/adding brood will start a virgin into lay. She will not start laying until she is a) no longer a virgin or b) past the point where mating can be an alternative! Any reports otherwise are anecdotal and not proven. Beekeepers should be avoiding starvation scenarios. As for adding open brood - you think of the likelihood. I think it is all in the mind of the beekeeper!
 
Thanks for all the information and help from everyone. I think I will give it one more week before I have to do something. Either a reunite, which seems as though people see this as more risky or I have read about shaking the bees out and they will beg entrance to my other hive. This seems the most straight forward method as long as (if Virgin is present??) the VQ doesn't also fly into the other hive.
 
No in the previous case it was definitely the frame of eggs that appeared to trigger the new queen to lay, even on the same frame! It happened that year in at least 2 hives.

On inspecting 2 hives that had 'test' frames this year I observed the queen on the test frame. So these hives were definitely 'queen right'
 
as long as (if Virgin is present??) the VQ doesn't also fly into the other hive

Other have observed that virgins and drone laying queens may fly into the 'wrong' hive after a 'shake out'. So always best to dispatch the queen if possible!
 
Checked the 4 today, no QC's drawn on of them. Two have now got eggs and small larvae, the other 2 were calm with lots of highly polished cell. I think I saw one egg on the test frame. So going with 2 laying, and going to give the other 2 another week, then another test frame if still nothing.

The two with eggs and larvae now have capped worker brood. Test frame with one egg in it now covered in eggs, One per cell dead centre, will just have to wait and see how it capped. Test framed added to the other hive 4 days ago. Checked today charged queen cells with larvae in them. Broke down QC's and united with my smallest hive.
 
Just a quick update. Been to the hives today to check before I go away. After a week of good weather, my new queen has started laying! Just hope not just drones but I'll know before soon. As people have said, so much for the 21 day / 20 degree C mating window. Not been above 16 degrees C and it's been 30 days.
 
:rules:

They make their own :)

Glad she has started laying. Fingers crossed for worker brood.
 
As people have said, so much for the 21 day / 20 degree C mating window. Not been above 16 degrees C and it's been 30 days

Here is part of another post I made a few minutes ago. Pertinent here, I might suggest?

It is a bit like the 20 degree Celsius temperature required for queen mating; people look at the met office details but many are clearly ignorant of the simple fact that these temperatures are recorded by thermometers placed ''in the shade''. These figures may not be the same as some sheltered but sunny situations. There are lots of other scenarios, within beekeeping, where the reasons for the particular situation are ill-considered or not considered at all.
 
Just how late in the year can you leave them broodless? One of our colonies swarmed while we were on holiday about 5 weeks ago. Bees seem normal, cells are polished and they didn't raise a new queen from a test frame. But still no brood or eggs.
Our local bee inspector visited last week for a routine check and confirmed all seemed OK (apart from no brood!). She suggested we should unite if no eggs by the middle of next week. She also said if we couldn't find/kill the queen we could unite over a QX.
 
I'd give it at least a couple more weeks but even uniting over a QX - you are still going to have the issue of two Q+ colonies battling it out for supremacy, I wouldn't be doing that.
You went on holidays five weeks ago - I assume they swarmed some time after you left (let's say a week later) so assuming you went for a fortnight the queen would have emerged a couple of days after you returned - so exactly how long ago was that? I would say there's still loooooads of time left for her to come good. Patience, all the signs are there that she will start laying soon.
 
Thanks - all the indications are they are queen-right but it's just seems it's getting late in the year for their numbers to recover for winter.

Hence the suggestion of uniting, but that would complicate autumn feeding and varroa-treatment ... ah well.
 
Really annoying having to wait and wait.
I had 2 colonies whose queens emerged on 7th July.
The boxes (14x12) were resembling empty caverns apart from the top corners where there was capped honey. I gave the strongest one a test frame...nothing.
They were both dwindling slowly, I couldn't find queens in either. Some weeks back husband thought he spotted a shiny pointed bee not much bigger than a worker. We marked her but by the next inspection she had disappeared and I presume she was not a queen.
I have one spare queen so I have united both these lame colonies and will try another test frame tomorrow. At least there are more bees in the one box now and they are out foraging.
 
Hrrrrumph!!!

My best laid plans.
This box of two united empty dwindling colonies now has a good number of eggs :banghead::banghead:

So that's nearly seven weeks after emergence.

PS I was sure one of these had a queen maybe both; any beginners reading this......don't unite without removing one of the queens. I got away with it and actually could afford to lose either or both....but don't do it.
 

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