Request for advice on uniting two colonies

[beekake]

I'm still a new beek. Two months ago, I discovered (on 1st inspection) that my newly purchased colony was queenless, and full of sealed QCs. I took most of them out, but obviously not all and lost a swarm (plus virgin queen) to a chimney pot. Luckily, I managed to collect the swarm and rehouse it in a new hive in the apiary. After leaving the swarm and the original colony well alone, both virgins mated and started to lay great slabs of brood. I was pretty chuffed that what seemed like a disaster was turning out OK.

The last two inspections of the original (now requeened) colony turned up unsealed QCs with brood & jelly, but the bees were industrious and the stores in the supers were on the increase. I worried perhaps that I have swarmy bees, but I inspect every 7 days so figured that I'd be able to keep things under control. However, at today's inspection, I discovered that the bees have cheated me and had managed to produce 6 sealed queen cells in less than 8 days. Unlike last week, there was no sign of eggs and the youngest larvae in the brood frames looked about 5 or 6 days old. I took down all but the largest QC. 8 frames of 11 have sealed brood or larvae.

In the hive that houses the captured swarm, all is lovely with boundless eggs, great slabs of brood etc., but only across 6 frames. I'm now wondering if, instead of waiting for the original colony to requeen for a second time in 2 months, I should just unite the two colonies so that they have the strength to collect some honey as well as build sufficient stores for the winter. I'd be devastated if I lost both hives because I was too optimistic about the chances of two (probably) weak colonies.

Any advice appreciated and, if you suggest uniting, how do I maximise the chances of success? At the moment I only have one site that I can house the bees at, and the two hives are currently about 10yds apart in a small orchard. Perhaps I have enough brood across the two colonies to make one strong colony and a small nuc?

Thanks,

Beekake

 

[oliver90owner]

As Poly Hive said on another thread tionight, there is plenty of time. Well, should be.

What hive type?

You may have a constricted hive - not enough laying/brood space for the queen, or crammed with stores - you don't mention supering on this colony.

Could be, as you say, a swarmy strain of bee. They seem to be all too common and some importations are to blame, I would suspect.

I hope you have learned that you do not ignore any queen cell with a larva and certainly not for two inspections! Some strains you can get away with it, but not for the inexperienced beekeper!

What you could have done was transfer some brood to reinforce your weaker colony. Missed the boat, really; already lost half your bees.

I wouldn't suggest uniting unless you desparately need a honey crop. Taking two colonies into winter is better than one - losing one colony over winter gives two very different statistics! If you want a honey crop you could buy in a laying queen (guards against perpetuating swarmy genes as well) and introduce, but at this time of the year a new queen may well get mated quite soon, so the time lost may not be so much more than them raising the new queen. Half a strongish colony - I would let them requeen, but your choice.

They will be storing honey hand over fist after another couple of days (no open brood to feed) if there is a decent flow (for the next three weeks or however long before there is open brood).

You have options, but plesae learn from your folly - don't play around when queen cells are involved - the bees will probably beat you!

Regards, RAB

 

[beekake]

RAB,

I have given the wrong impression of my swarm control! I've been taking down the nascent QCs at each inspection, not ignoring them. Hence my surprise at the sealed QCs being made in the last week...they've been built, populated and sealed in response to last week's swarm management efforts (3 unsealed QC removed).

In terms of hive type and congestion, I've a national with 3 supers. One super is full, the next above it is half full and the one above that is drawn and has some liquid stores in it. I've always checked for the presence of enough comb for the queen to lay on in the brood box, and that aspect of the hive has been fine too.

You suggest I may have lost half my bees, but to be honest, the boxes seem as busy as usual. Perhaps supercedure? The QCs have generally been built in the top third of the frames, usually at the edges.

Your answer was quite reassuring anyway- and maybe transferring some brood to my weaker colony istill an option?

 

[Midland Beek]

NB Destroy sealed queen cells and the bees might raise emergency queen cells in response. Better to give them a chance with a 'proper' queen cell.

 

[beekake]

I destroyed all but the largest QC. I don't think there are any larvae young enough for the bees to now make an emergency cell. I left only one QC because last time I left two and I ended up with two new queens, of which one took a swarm (Which I recovered).

Are you suggesting an emergency cell is a 'proper' QC?

 

[oliver90owner]

OK, you initially said: colony turned up unsealed QCs with brood & jelly

Technically I should have said 'ignoring their swarming instinct', I suppose. Amounts to the same thing.

I have given the wrong impression of my swarm control! I've been taking down the nascent QCs at each inspection

Certainly not an effective method in my book! A/S is the approved method in virtually all good bee books.

3 day old larvae used and they are gone in five. They will do that if you try to thwart them. The first ones sealed would likely be scrub queens, but they have swarmed and satisfied their drive for procreation of the super organism. This would be particularly true if there was insufficient space in the brood box - every day would mean more bees and still insufficient laying space. Remember cells are likely empty between emergence and re-laying for best part of four days. They are certainly not available immediately.

I inspect every 7 days so figured that I'd be able to keep things under control.

Doesn't work. You have just proved that. Leave that to later, when you can afford to take the risk of losing the occasional swarm or are able to understand the bees actions better.

You suggest I may have lost half my bees, but to be honest, the boxes seem as busy as usual.

Half is fairly typical, perhaps a little less, but remember there have been emerging bees to replace some of those bees (and they will definitely be in the hive), some foragers will have been lost and you may not notice their absence during the daytime. There may be lots still tending brood but rater fewer processing nectar in the supers. Lots of things new beeks tend to ignore or not understand.

I very much doubt the bees would build emergency queen cells in less than a week for supercedure. Supercedure is a different process. Further the queen is unlikely to have stopped laying suddenly - you could have killed her, but they would not normally swarm on emergency cells (but could if they already were under the swarming impulse).

You now have a few more details to ponder. You are learning, so keep it up. i reckon your bees are likely of a swarmy nature, but I can't be sure of that. Not good for a beginner, if they are.

Remember the bees did not 'cheat' you, they beat you - fair and square!

'Steering' them in the direction you would like them to take is far better than going head-on against them (cf A/S v Destroying queen cells).

Regards, RAB

 

[beekake]

RAB,

Yes- good points all. I had considered A/S but didn't have the courage or confidence at last week's inspection. Ironically, I found the queen easily last week, so would have been able to do it!

Given your comment re: scrub queens in the sealed cells, is there any action I should take? I don't want to end up in a situation where I have a poor queen and a weak colony going into winter. I suppose buying in a queen is an option, but is another option to bring in a frame with eggs from another colony, remove the current sealed QC, and let the bees build a new QC from an egg?

 

[isc26]

Just faced a similar situation. A nuc from a caught swarm (cast) had a queen that had just started laying but a week later no sign of queen, eggs or young larvae. But did have multiple sealed QC. At first thinned down QC to two. Then thought about it and given its already July decided to unite.

Had a bit of a dilema which colony to unite to but chose a A/S colony which was a bit late getting going. Used newspaper method. As hives I needed to unite couldn't be moved next to each other I did process in daytime to give flying bees a chance to find a new home. Results are out on the uniting but the flying bees went into a adjacent hive without fighting.