Requeening plan - sanity check?

[Nakedapiarist]

I've got two hives at the moment and I'm very keen to not have any more.

Hive 1 lives down the allotment and has bees that are basically a bit crap - they're reluctant to draw out comb and very keen to start consuming stores at the slightest hint of bad weather.

Hive 2 lives in the workshop and performed incredibly well last year. They superceded their queen some time after I closed up the hives for the winter which was a bit of a surprise when I checked them.

I'd like to requeen hive 1 with a queen raised from hive 2 and I've been looking at Jay Smiths Better Queens.

If my brain is properly in gear, I have the bees from Hive 2 draw out some comb that I can cut into strips ( did this over last summer - about half a frame of foundationless comb ). Dequeen hive 1. Once the donor frame has been laid on, cut strips of eggs and remove two out every three cells, mount these on a frame bar and give it to the dequeened hive 1 - the bees should draw out queen cells around the eggs on the strip and nature should take its course.

Have I got that vaguely right? What about timing? - I've not observed drone cells appearing in the colony yet so presumably it's way too early.

How ( if at all ) does this affect swarm control measures? I was thinking of trying the Demaree method in the hope of avoiding ending up with extra hives appearing all over the place. ( I know it might not work but it's got to be worth a try )

 

[Poly Hive]

Over complex tbh.

Kill the queen in Hive 1. Wait a few days until they produce cells and kill them off. Be strongly aware that a colony hopelessly queenless is not going to be pleasant to be around esp with your location.

When you are SURE all the possible material from the old queen is too old to for them to use to start cells then just give a frame of open brood. 6 days later go check and knock out the more advanced cells as they are panic cells started on three day old larvae, and keep they youngest. Let them get on with it.

Yes it is way too early to consider this as there are so far very few drones and they are immature at best.

KISS

PH

 

[JEP]

Well if you want to keep it simple and use no extra gear then let the bees provide the timing.

Wait until either hive builds swarm cells, that way you maximise your potential for any early crop.

If the poor hive builds cells first then kill the queen and any sealed cells, one week later kill any other cells and stick in the larvae from your good hive.

If the good hive builds cells first and the poor hive is still weak then kill the queen in the poor hive and replace with the queen from the good hive. Reduce to one cell in the good hive.

One or two nuc boxes with a couple of frames of bees and brood and a good queen cell would be good insurance to ensure you have at least two decent queens when all the dust settles.

 

[Brian Bush]

Well if you want to keep it simple and use no extra gear then let the bees provide the timing.

Wait until either hive builds swarm cells, that way you maximise your potential for any early crop.

If the poor hive builds cells first then kill the queen and any sealed cells, one week later kill any other cells and stick in the larvae from your good hive.

If the good hive builds cells first and the poor hive is still weak then kill the queen in the poor hive and replace with the queen from the good hive. Reduce to one cell in the good hive.

One or two nuc boxes with a couple of frames of bees and brood and a good queen cell would be good insurance to ensure you have at least two decent queens when all the dust settles.

This is the simplest plan and probably the best. Remember though that the new queen only provides 50% of the genetic material and you are unable to control the quality of the drones she will mate with.

 

[nantmoel]

Why not simply buy in a decent queen - the are a few good breeders on her SIPA, HM (Admin) at least you are getting good stock and they should produce and behave well for you.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hive maker's queen are excellent. Lots of us can vouch for that.
(BTW HM isn't admin.....they are two different people )

 

[Nakedapiarist]

Why not simply buy in a decent queen - the are a few good breeders on her SIPA, HM (Admin) at least you are getting good stock and they should produce and behave well for you.

There's a few reasons -

By buying in I'd be missing out on seeing half of the honey bees life cycle, and a side of it I'd like to see and film/photograph in detail. It's also an aspect of beekeeping I want to get to grips with.

Hive 2 was headed by a queen from the local area and did extremely well, their mite count is always low, they gave plenty of honey and didn't need feeding. It makes sense to me to at least try to raise queens from a good colony - I can always replace a queen if she doesn't perform.

Even if I do buy in I'd be inclined to go for one from the local area - I tried one hive of Buckfast last year ( hive 1 ) and although they were indeed gentle, they also needed a great deal of Autumn feeding and didn't give me any honey.

What do people make of the various concerns over 'emergency queens' not being very fit, and ideas like notching the side of cells to encourage queen cell formation?

 

[Poly Hive]

A good queen is very well fed from the off. There is always a doubt about the feeding of an emergency cell.

PH

 

[Erichalfbee]

If an emergency queen is raised from an egg (rather than a larva) what is the difference in the feeding?

 

[Swarm]

Nowt.

 

[Finman]

.
Biggest problem is in own Queen breeding, that from where you get a good mother Queen? To select from two hives, where another one is not even an alternative.

Hives surely rear 15 queens easily, as you see in swarming. But what kind of queen and mated with surrounding mongrels. Result is surely native local bee.

That is why it is better to buy it from professionals. They have a variety from where to select a good origin.

 

[Nakedapiarist]

.
But what kind of queen and mated with surrounding mongrels. Result is surely native local bee.
.

My better perfoming hive are just mongrel bees from the local stock - it's what most of the keepers at our local branch keep. They're doing well for me so far and I don't see the need to change.

 

[Poly Hive]

Yes and on that basis produce queens from your best. If more did just that things would improve instead of staying the same.

PH

 

[Finman]

My better perfoming hive are just mongrel bees from the local stock - it's what most of the keepers at our local branch keep. They're doing well for me so far and I don't see the need to change.

Mongrels are hybrids, as often said, natives from last Ice Ace.

Hybrids are bad in queen rearing, because you get a big variation from good for nothing to best hive in village. It depends, what you get.

.

 

[Fusion_power]

Hybrids are bad in queen rearing, because you get a big variation from good for nothing to best hive in village.

This can be said of all open mated queens where drone source is not controlled. However, the queen exercises a significantly larger influence over her offspring as a result of the modified form of parthenogenesis (Arrhenotokous parthenogenesis) used by insects. There is enough influence to justify raising queens from the best queen available even when the drone source is not controlled.

 

[Finman]

This can be said of all open mated queens where drone source is not controlled. However, the queen exercises a significantly larger influence over her offspring as a result of the modified form of parthenogenesis (Arrhenotokous parthenogenesis) used by insects. There is enough influence to justify raising queens from the best queen available even when the drone source is not controlled.

Good advices to one hive owner

In normal beekeeping it is enough that you buy a mated professional queen, you take offsprings, which mate openly. Hives get hybrid influence and they are good producer. Their habit to swarm is often bad, but it works if you want.

Two hive owner gets enough swarming queens from his hives. You need not to rear them. If you do not select your stock, swarming cells are best option, .... As most beekeepers do.
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